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RE: container homes and safety
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Eric Meinert
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Jan 15, 2007 06:49 PST
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Regarding code compliance for containers. I doubt that many building inspectors or building permit issuers are even aware of the potential toxins in container materials. The wood floorplanks are treated, that's true. With what, I do not know. They can be removed. The paint can also be removed, or covered. Is lead paint hazardous if covered and not disturbed? As for insulation, you would probably not want a refrigerated unit anyway, as you will have to cut chases into the insulation for your wiring. I would prefer a clean, empty box. Working around existing installations is usually more trouble than its worth in material savings.
A conventional foundation is not required. Pilons or piers could elevate the box above the ground. Wes Jones uses this system in one of his firm's Pro/Con concept dwellings. The floor would have to be well insulated from the underside though. This would add an additional step to the assembly process, and violate the module, unless it can be removed in one piece, or discarded/reused. There are insulation manufacturers who make huge foam blocks for civil engineering works. I imagine a very large single block could be made for a 20 foot x 8 foot by 1 foot unit.
I am curious, has anyone on this board actually lived in or modified a container for living in? I know that there are private container dwelling suppliers that cater to the natural resource extraction industries, such as those made by Sea Wolf. Has anybody lived in or worked in one of these?
Eric
From: Eric Patrick <eric.p-@undp.org>Reply-To: Dymaxi-@topica.comTo: Dymaxi-@topica.comSubject: RE: container homes and safetyDate: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:21:40 +0300Good point on health issues; was aware of potential problem with lead or zinc in the paints they use, but hadn't thought of the other things; yet people have built and dwell in such homes; wonder how they pass code or how one gets the environmental history of a given unitEric-----Original Message-----From: Nonconformist [mailto:gol-@yahoo.com]Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:31 PMTo: Dymaxi-@topica.comSubject: Re: container homes and modernismAh, there you go. As soon as I decide to mention straw bales, somebodyelse beat me to it. Way to go,
Glowbawl!I should know better than to think I can think up must of anything thatno one else has already thought of.John.--- glow-@netscape.net wrote:> sorta been paying attention to this list.> notions to add...sorry they dig into present conversation a bit,> there are many positive things but felt this was being overlooked> 1. container insulation while efficient for refridge purpose isn't> safe for living around. One container I workrd with had a polyvinyl> foam that was epoxied down and it seemed that there was enough off> gasing alone to kill ya.> 2. plywood used especially if from China can contain amazingly high> levels of formaldehyde holding it together. Many containers had been> treated with a noxious waterproofing agent. That's for
a new> container, who knows what goes on in a used one...mold,> contamination, etc. Not good at all for living purposes. It should be> understood even if you are low in income you shouldn't build shelter> that could do yourself harm. Used containers could be very> dangerous!! Toxins get transported and stored in ways that are in and> of themselves toxic, how are you gonna know what was shipped in a ten> year old container??> 3. Why live in a box??> 4. Use container as structural embankments and the space inside as> storage only. Stiill means you've got a lot to build, but you can> begin to move away from types of work that require a lot of equipment> and perhaps with planning getaway from a conventional foundation.> Wonderous things could come about with four containers
and> strawbales.> 5. Complete relocation notion, if you need to really relocate> yourself and many things the containers could be filled with> belongins and building supplies so that everything arrived at site at> the same time. Then you would only need to figure out placement> method for the containers. So the containers would need to be packed> with placement in mind.>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: eric.p-@undp.org> To: Dymaxi-@topica.com> Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 9:07 AM> Subject: container homes and modernism>> Hi Eric Some interesting thoughts and I think basically valid,> though I think the last paragraph is overly optimistic. One thing> that stuck
me in Ottawa during the high tech boom was that, contrary> to general expectations, this young, technophile, possibly eccentric> dotcom millionaire market did not go for the loft look downtown but> overwhelmingly bought large, traditional houses in the old,> established prestigious neighbourhoods. What does this indicate? That> they see their home as an investment and feel these areas are a safer> bet? That as a status symbol one has to buy in these neighbourhoods,> where its too expensive to tear down and build? I suspect its mainly> psychological; unlike a car, which is an ‘accessory’ and a public> one, and something which is ultimately disposable, that people> strongly internalize an aesthetic they associate with a home (as> opposed to a house), ie nostalgic, secure, private; basically>
something they grew up in. Of course in many big cities one has a> downtown market for modernism with YUPPIE purchasers, but I wonder if> this is not due to physical constraints; ie conversion of industrial> buildings etc, which could never be made to look like the suburbs.> Basically, the North American home owner has a very conservative,> traditional aesthetic. This, in my opinion, is why we don’t see> more use of containers for modern, funky developments, though of> course could also be by-law issues or, in some places, weather Eric> From: eric meinert [mailto:ericme-@hotmail.com]> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:22 AM> To: Dymaxi-@topica.com> Subject: RE: Testing, please ignore I imagine that a high
cube> container will not be affected by insulation enought to reduce the> ceiling below eight feet, even with an insulated floor. The walls may> be another matter. The way I envisage a container habitat being> efficient and livable is through the ability to extend the width by> modular add ons, bringing the total width to about twelve, or at> least ten feet. Expansive glass will also go a long way towards> eliminating the claustrophobic limits of an eight foot width module.> I think that the real benefits of container habitation are in the> cost savings of factory installation of all mechanical systems,> including fit up options like flooring materials. Visualise> automobile or bus assembly lines. The scale and repetition allows for> economical subassemblies and precision
installation. Ironically, the> most suitable people for designing the ecologically sustainable> container home are people with experience in the assembly of> automobiles. If people think that the results of this level of> standardization will produce sterile, unexciting, and monotonous> housing, they are mistaken. Look at the choice of automobiles on the> market today. There is a car to express the personality of every> driver, from Hummers to Smart Cars. And within each brand and model> there are color and finish options as well. Imagine a home designed> by the people at Mercedes Benz. This approach is the solution to the> planet's housing needs, not more 'Modern' custom homes as seen in> DWELL magazine and other such sources of 'inspiration'. Modernism was> inspired by the efficiencies of
mass production, to benefit the> masses. Unfortunately, it became a vehicle of an elite need to> separate itself from the 'tasteless' masses. The result was an> architecture which I call Potempkin Modernism. Modern only on the> surface, with an intention to impress. The furnishings are similarly> elitist, with simple designer 'functional' pieces fetching outrageous> prices that leave the ordinarly shopper with no recourse but IKEA for> anything modern and affordable. Part of the problem with the lack of> acceptance by the public for Modernist architecture (including> Container dwellings) is this ironic lack of affordability of modern> design offerings. The second major obstacle is the inchoate quality> of many modern designs. Again the comparision with automobiles is> instructive. The public has no issue
whatsoever with the modern and> forward looking products of the automobile industry. Even the most> ordinarly car features sleek aerodynamic lines, machine esthetic> colors, and complex instrument panels. You do not find people> demanding that cars look like horse drawn buggies. Yet in> architecture, people want houses that look like they are from the> horse and buggy age, with ornamental flourishes and traditional> materials. Why? Because the alternative offerings are so often> sterile or eccentric. Compare a forward looking automobile design,> such as a Mercedes Benz, with a modern home, such as a DWELL home.> The Mercedes is symmetrical in design, and its overall esthetic> expresses what it is, a machine designed to move. Now look at a> 'modern' home. Typically there is a deliberate lack of symmetry,
and> the choice of materials is mixed, such as currogated metal combined> with natural wood. Can you imagine a Mercedes with three doors on one> side, and one on the other? With a flat roof and wooden door panels?> The inconsistency and asymmetry is unattractive. Container homes> offer the benefit that they tightly constrain the designer, due to> their strict modular availability. This, ironically, can result in an> architecture with the ageless appeal of vernacular architecture. That> is, an architecture where the houses are fundamentally similar, with> minor variations constrained, and all designs expressing with honesty> and charm their fundmental contruction and material. From:> Eric Patrick <eric.p-@undp.org>> Reply-To:
Dymaxi-@topica.com> To: Dymaxi-@topica.com> Subject: RE: Testing, please ignore> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:42:14 +0300 Hi Deb Good point; but does> this not significantly reduce the living space? Also, are they not> considerably more expensive Eric From: deborah drew> [mailto:dtd-@aol.com]> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:13 PM> To: Dymaxi-@topica.com> Subject: Re: Testing, please ignore Eric, Regarding heat.> Refrigerated containers are well insulated, works both ways. A fellow> Canadian. Deb Drew> ________________________________________________To subscribe:>
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