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Re: scales for weight and balance work
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Robert E Cook
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Oct 19, 2009 04:58 PDT
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Gary..........
Cool! This is the way we always checked CG on our model
airplanes......literally supporting them to determine the exact balance
point........No scales, no math....extremely accurate!
I guess the 101 is light enough to be able to actually lift the aircraft
onto some support, and do the same. Since the balance is at the Landing
Gear attach point, there is enough structure to support all the weight
without damage to the airframe.
Note also that in this set up, there is no "range" of CG given, just a
"point"............nice........
The CG would of course vary as fuel is used, and then you would have to
do some checks for pilots of different weights....
Cookie
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Gary Lee <gray-@pacbell.net>
writes:
Greetings listers,
I know little about aircraft building practices , am mostly inexperienced
as an aviator, but, being a bit of a pack rat collector I have in my
posession a copy of a safety bulletin/ advisory circular sent to me from
the folks at South Webster Ohio, stamped by the USPS on the 3rd of Nov
1983, addressing, among other issues the center of gravity location for
the plane I was building at that time, the 101. For the sake of history
and general interest in the topic, thought I'd post the following. Of
course, this information will not apply directly to current projects,
however.....
From the bulletin, I quote:
1. Center of Gravity Location.
The CG. point on your FP-101 is the rear landing gear attach fitting. The
center of gravity is determined by balancing the aircraft at this point
with the fuel tank empty and the pilot on board and all other equipment
used in flight installed. The aircraft should balance fore and aft on
this point with the pilot sitting upright in the flight position with his
feet on the rudder pedals. If the pilot pulls his legs up and leans back,
the aircraft should become tail heavy, and if he extends his legs and
leans forward, the aircraft should become nose heavy. Use weights, if
necessary ( the battery is a perfect weight if electric start is
installed) to obtain this condition. Following this proceedure will
insure that the aircraft will have a slight nose heavy condition when the
fuel tank is filled. Do not attempt to fly a tail heavy aircraft!! This
condition is dangerous because it greatly increases the stall speed and
reduces the top speed of the aircraft. An extreme nose heavy condition
can result in a tendancy to spiral dive and poor control response or loss
of control.
Anyway, thought some might find the message enjoyable.
Cheers,
Gary
one wing and all the rest to go.
From: Geoffrey & Paula West <harm-@sbcglobal.net>
To: Fish-@topica.com
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 1:44:22 PM
Subject: Re: FFP scales for weight and balance work
I guess what the real "crux" of the entire scale argument would be it
...go ahead and use whatever set of scales you want. It would help
GREATLY if ...
1- They were consitant
2- They were acurate
So, experiment away. Geoff 426NH
--- On Sat, 10/17/09, Airplane Girl <agflie-@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Airplane Girl <agflie-@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FFP scales for weight and balance work
To: Fish-@topica.com
Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 6:52 AM
Hey..................
Back to weighing in
(tongue-in-cheek:-)).................................... on the lighter
side of things.........
I asked the "Flying Farmer" about all this W & B business and he says,
"Heck, if you're building an experimental aircraft use experimental
scales!" (just kidding folks) LOL
Staying "blond" in VA.
..... lurking and learning.......... from the best........... (it has
been great to see/hear the banter and to hear from all sides)
For some, a goal becomes a dream and a dream makes life worth living.
"There is more to life than being a passenger." From Movie Trailer,
Amelia
LMS
KG4WJI
Celebrity Biplane Builder
Aeronca Champ Pilot, N83436
www.bluebirdaerodrome.com
--- On Sat, 10/17/09, Robert E Cook <twocool-@juno.com> wrote:
From: Robert E Cook <twocool-@juno.com>
Subject: Re: FFP scales for weight and balance work
To: Fish-@topica.com
Cc: Fish-@topica.com
Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 9:20 AM
?
Joe,
I hope you don't mind changing the subject to a new discussion
(argument)........(Complete with sarcasm) lol....
I'm going to start out with a couple of questions........
On your "moth"..............
What is V ne ?
What is Va ?
What is the wing loading ?
What is your entry speed for a loop?
What is the exit speed?
What is the entry speed for an Immelman?
What is the exit speed?
Cookie
Stalls, spins, loops, hammerheads, wing overs, and immelmans are easy.
Best of luck to you.
Joe Hutton,
Tiger moth TM-28, 300 hours
PS My 95% P-51D is taking shape and coming along great!!!!
____________________________________________________________
Turn any room into a work of art. Click now for beautiful oriental rugs!
:
Find a Fishnet member near you at
http://www.frappr.com/fisherflyingproduct
Check out the Fishnet Hangar at...
http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm
Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind
lai-@airmail.net
For subscription issues, Log In or Register at
http://lists.topica.com/lists/Fishnet or contact Scott Stewart
dakota-@att.net
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css>DIV {
MARGIN: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<META http-equiv=3Dcontent-type content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Dutf-8>
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<BODY>
<DIV>Gary..........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cool! This is the way we always checked CG on our model =
airplanes......literally supporting them to determine the exact balance =
=
point........No scales, no math....extremely accurate!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess the 101 is light enough to be able to actually lift the air=
craft =
onto some support, and do the same. Since the balance is at the La=
nding =
Gear attach point, there is enough structure to support all the weight w=
ithout =
damage to the airframe.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Note also that in this set up, there is no "range" of CG given, jus=
t a =
"point"............nice........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The CG would of course vary as fuel is used, and then you would hav=
e to do =
some checks for pilots of different weights....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cookie</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Gary Lee <<A =
href=3D"mailto:gray-@pacbell.net">gray-@pacbell.net</A>> writes=
:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px=
solid">
<DIV =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif">
<DIV>Greetings listers,</DIV>
<DIV>I know little about aircraft building practices , =
=
am mostly inexperienced as an aviator, but, being a bit of a pack=
rat =
collector I have in my posession a copy of a safety bulletin/ ad=
visory =
circular sent to me from the folks at South Webster Ohio, stamped=
by the =
USPS on the 3rd of Nov 1983, addressing, among other issues =
; the =
center of gravity location for the plane I was building at that t=
ime, the =
101. For the sake of history and general interest in the =
topic, thought I'd post the following. Of course, this=
=
information will not apply directly to current projects, however.....<=
/DIV>
<DIV>From the bulletin, I quote:</DIV>
<DIV> 1. Center of Gravity Location.</DIV>
<DIV>The CG. point on your FP-101 is the rear landing gear attach fitt=
ing. The =
center of gravity is determined by balancing the aircraft at this poin=
t with =
the fuel tank empty and the pilot on board and all other equipmen=
t used =
in flight installed. The aircraft should balance fore and aft on this =
point =
with the pilot sitting upright in the flight position with his feet on=
the =
rudder pedals. If the pilot pulls his legs up and leans back, the airc=
raft =
should become tail heavy, and if he extends his legs and leans forward=
, the =
aircraft should become nose heavy. Use weights, if necessary ( the bat=
tery is =
a perfect weight if electric start is installed) to obtain this condit=
ion. =
Following this proceedure will insure that the aircraft will have a sl=
ight =
nose heavy condition when the fuel tank is filled. Do not attempt to f=
ly a =
tail heavy aircraft!! This condition is dangerous because it greatly i=
ncreases =
the stall speed and reduces the top speed of the aircraft. An extreme =
nose =
heavy condition can result in a tendancy to spiral dive and poor contr=
ol =
response or loss of control.</DIV>
<DIV>Anyway, thought some might find the message enjoyable.</DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV>Gary</DIV>
<DIV>one wing and all the rest to go.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <BR></DIV>
<DIV =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><BR>
<DIV =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Geoffrey & P=
aula West =
<harm-@sbcglobal.net><BR><B><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Fish-@topica.com<BR><B><S=
PAN =
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, October 18, 2009 =
1:44:22 =
PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: FFP=
scales =
for weight and balance work<BR></FONT><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>I guess what the real "crux" of the entire scale argument w=
ould be =
it ...go ahead and use whatever set of scales you want. It would=
help =
GREATLY if ...</DIV>
<DIV>1- They were consitant</DIV>
<DIV>2- They were acurate</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So, experiment away. Geoff 426NH <BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat=
, =
10/17/09, Airplane Girl <I><agflie-@yahoo.com></I></B>=
=
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(1=
6,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: =
Airplane Girl <agflie-@yahoo.com><BR>Subject: Re: FF=
P scales =
for weight and balance work<BR>To: Fish-@topica.com<BR>Date:=
=
Saturday, October 17, 2009, 6:52 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv427414080>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>Hey..................</DIV>
<DIV>Back to <EM><STRONG>weighing in</STRONG></EM> =
(tongue-in-cheek:-))....................................=
on the =
<EM><STRONG>lighter </STRONG></EM>side of things........=
.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I asked the "<STRONG>Flying Farmer</STRONG>" about =
all this =
W & B business and he says, "Heck, if you're bu=
ilding =
an experimental aircraft use experimental scales!" =
(just =
kidding folks) LOL</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Staying "blond" in VA.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>..... lurking and learning.......... from the =
best........... (it has been great to see/hear the bante=
r and to =
hear from all sides) <BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#0000bf><EM><FONT face=3D=
arial>For =
some, a goal becomes a dream and a dream makes life wort=
h =
living.</FONT></EM><STRONG> </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#0000bf><STRONG>"<A =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DioZCEpRLpxo" ta=
rget=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>There is more to life than being a =
passenger."</A></STRONG><A =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DioZCEpRLpxo" ta=
rget=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow> </A>From Movie Trailer, <A =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DioZCEpRLpxo" ta=
rget=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>Amelia </A></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000><BR></FONT><SPAN><SPAN>LMS</SPAN></SPAN>=
<BR>KG4WJI</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>Celebrity Biplane Builder</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft>Aeronca Champ Pilot, N83436</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><A href=3D"http://www.bluebirdaerodrom=
e.com/" =
target=3D_blank =
rel=3Dnofollow>www.bluebirdaerodrome.com</A></DIV></DIV>=
<A =
href=3D"http://avatars.yahoo.com/" target=3D_blank rel=3D=
nofollow><IMG =
height=3D235 alt=3D"Yahoo! Avatars" =
src=3D"http://lookup.avatars.yahoo.com/ewimages?enc=3DdH=
ps33pFScFgWxorbeZFRGmfXN2ut06D&size=3Dlarge&type=3Dpng" =
width=3D150 border=3D0></A><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 10/17/=
09, Robert E =
Cook <I><twocool-@juno.com></I></B> wrote:<B=
R>
<BLOCKQUOTE =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEF=
T: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: =
Robert E Cook <twocool-@juno.com><BR>Subje=
ct: Re: =
FFP scales for weight and balance work<BR>To: =
Fish-@topica.com<BR>Cc: Fish-@topica.com<BR>Date: =
=
Saturday, October 17, 2009, 9:20 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv767552048>=EF=BB=BF =
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css>#yiv427414080 #yiv767552048 P {=
MARGIN: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<DIV>Joe,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I hope you don't mind changing the subject to a n=
ew =
discussion (argument)........(Complete with sarcasm)&n=
bsp; =
lol....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm going to start out with a couple of =
questions........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On your "moth"..............</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What is V ne ?</DIV>
<DIV>What is Va ?</DIV>
<DIV>What is the wing loading ?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What is your entry speed for a loop?</DIV>
<DIV>What is the exit speed?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What is the entry speed for an Immelman?</DIV>
<DIV>What is the exit speed?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cookie</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER=
-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr =
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORD=
ER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAM=
ILY: Arial">
<DIV> Stalls, spins, loops, hammerheads, wing=
overs, =
and immelmans are easy. </DIV>
<DIV>Best of luck to you.</DIV>
<DIV>Joe Hutton,</DIV>
<DIV>Tiger moth TM-28, 300 hours</DIV>
<DIV>PS My 95% P-51D is taking shape and coming al=
ong =
great!!!!</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DTimes-New=
-Roman =
size=3D2><BR><BR>_____________________________________=
_______________________ =
<BR><A =
href=3D"http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2142/fc/BL=
SrjpTGfkWdkLfzjPzrPdIUoG7lljnzPlY9mMRxvRbnhLqwf47KdYYM78s/" =
target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Turn any room into a wo=
rk of art. =
Click now for beautiful oriental =
rugs!</FONT></A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY=
| | </TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV>=
|
<PRE>:
Find a Fishnet member near you at <A href=3D"http://www.frappr.com/fishe=
rflyingproduct">http://www.frappr.com/fisherflyingproduct</A>
Check out the Fishnet Hangar at...
<A href=3D"http://www.lairdlind.com/fishnet.htm">http://www.lairdlind.co=
m/fishnet.htm</A>
Submit a picture of your Fishnet project to Laird Lind =
lai-@airmail.net
For subscription issues, Log In or Register at <A href=3D"http://lists.t=
opica.com/lists/Fishnet">http://lists.topica.com/lists/Fishnet</A> or co=
ntact Scott Stewart dakota-@att.net</PRE><PRE>--^^------------------=
---------------------------------------------
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<font face=3D"Times-New-Roman" size=3D"2"><br><br>______________________=
______________________________________
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