Welcome Guest!
 Herb Evans
 Previous Message All Messages Next Message 
Some Questions For M. H. Clark And Followers  John Henry
 Sep 14, 2003 05:51 PDT 


By Herb Evans

M.H. Clark, a former professor in the late seventies at Baptist Bible
College East, had advertised in the Baptist Bible Tribune; tapes that are
critical of the King James Bible, the King James translators, and Peter
Ruckman and his followers (so-called Ruckmanites). These tapes contain at
least 48 challenging questions for this so-called Ruckman "cult.”

The good professor does not have any strong Scriptural arguments.
Therefore, he has compiled 48 extra-scriptural objections of lesser weight
(many of them repetitive and probably borrowed from others) to produce a
"shotgun effect.” This method of argument, by sheer quantity of charges,
may be effective in brainwashing unsuspecting students, but some of us have
been around a while.

Actually, Clark’s questions are akin to "Where did Cain get his wife?" and
"Did Adam have a belly button?" type questions. Nine of the questions take
issue with the A.V. translators notes; 6 object to the sins of James I,
Henry the VIII, and the Church of England; 6 deal with other translations;
six deal with the revisions of the original AV; 3 deal with the
"originals”; 3 take issue with the A.V. italics and preface; 3 deal with
R.A. Torrey and other greats who differ with Ruckmanites; 3 take issue with
Easter in the A.V. (39 so far); the remaining questions deal with one
alleged transliteration, one other alleged mistranslation, and some
miscellaneous kindergarten questions.

What is amazing is that while this article was written in the eighties,
Bible Correctors have not changed their questions nor their arguments. We
do not plan to answer these objections in detail, for that would require a
book. We will, however, play Clark’s game and ask him some questions that
will expose his Bible Correcting questions.

1. Do Bible believers (You call them Ruckmanites) really say that the
translators, their marginal notes, and their prefaces are error free? Or do
we say the A.V. Text is free from error? Why don’t you stop
misrepresenting the opposition to buttress your weak arguments?

2. Is there a difference between informative and helpful explanatory notes
versus marginal notes that pervert the meaning of the passage? Are you not
mixing apples and oranges?

3. Do you endorse the "Open Bible’s" Jehovah Witness note on 2 John 5:7? Do
you endorse the men from the Church of Christ, Fuller seminary, and
Charismatics who are responsible for the notes in the "Open Bible?”

4. Do Ruckmanites really say the translators were inspired? Not even the
apostles were inspired. Only the Scriptures are said to be inspired!

5. Do you a1low a difference between the "original tongues" and the
"original Autographs," as the translators speak of them? Your own college
president, A.V. Henderson says in writing, "We do not have the original
writings” (and neither did the translators). Do you think that he is a

6. Can you even prove that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and that
the New Testament was written in Greek? What language was spoken in the
Gospels? Greek? Aramaic? Why do you think that Papias (80-164 A.D.) said
that Matthew was written in Hebrew?

7. Do you believe that the Bible, which Timothy had, contained errors? Did
Timothy have the "original Autographs?” Copies?

8. Do you believe that God had anything at all to do with the King James
Bible translation?

9. Don’t you think that the translators should be commended, rather than be
rebuked, for their uncanny foresight in putting something in the Bible that
wasn't found for 200 years —even if it was in italics?

10. Do you believe God preserves His Word? If you do, does He preserve His
"inspired inerrant" word or does He preserve His "uninspired errant" word? Huh?

11. Are the sins of James I, the translators, Henry the VIII, and the
Church of Eng1and more important than the sins of King Saul, King David,
King Solomon, Peter, Israel, or the Corinthian church?

12. Who had to flee the Puritans after they fled James the First? Were it
Baptists, who were beaten and jailed by those sweet Calvinists for
preaching without a license to preach?

13. Which Old Testament writer had more than six wives? Which Old Testament
writer committed adultery? Which Old Testament writer was guilty of
Idolatry? Which New Testament writer played the hypocrite?

14. You ask, “Was King James the First born again?” How are we supposed to
tell? From his writings, he seemed to be. Was John Calvin? Was Martin
Luther? Was Augustine?

15. If every "mean" translation is the Word of God, is the "Good News
bible and the "Living bible" the word of God? The RSV? The JW bible? Do
you really believe the translators would have accepted a translation from a
compiled eclectic text (Wescott and Hort)? What did the word “mean” mean?
Did it mean perversions?

16. Isn't an apostate someone who has abandoned what he formerly believed?
Isn’t your reference, 2 Pet. 2:1-22 talking about "false prophets" and not
apostates (note verse 1)?

17. Can’t a person get saved by reading a commentary? Does that justify the
errors in the commentary? Couldn’t a person get saved—even under your ministry?

18. Have you read the rest of the preface, in their own words, concerning
James rule about the words "baptism" and "church?”—"We have on one side
avoided the scrupulousity (demanding exactness or literalness) of Puritans,
who leave the old Ecclesiastical words, and betake them to other, as when
they put washing for baptism, and congregation instead of church." Could
this really be considered a conspiracy against the Baptists? Can we really
blame this on James even though the English Bibles that predate the AV use
the older, so-called ecclesiastical words?

19. Who says the translators transliterated “BAPTIZO?” You? Does
"blaspheme" for "BLASPHEMEO" bother you? How about "deacon" for "DIAKONOS?”
Would you like it, if "DIAKONOS" was translated servant everywhere making
them the same as Phebe?

20. Is your college called "Baptist Bible College East" or is it called
"lmmerser Bible College East?" Does the assembly that you belong to have a
sign that says "Church" or "Assembly" or "Congregation?” Why don t you
clean up your own backyard first? Or do like the “Assembly of God.”

21. Do you think that this Baptist writer, who has had articles, concerning
baptism, the body, the church, and communion printed in the "Baptist
Examiner" and other strong

Baptist papers have the difficulty that you seem to have in establishing
the Baptist position with the English Bible (A.V.).

22. Do you think it fair to call a person a Ruckmanite who has dated,
written matter that predates Peter Ruckman’s books and newsletters, which
establishes a similar position? Are R.A. Torrey and some of the others you
mention Clark-ites because they believe as you do? Some argument!

23. Would you accept “pascha” if it were in the English Bible? That would
be a transliteration, you know? That’s what the Catholics did in their
English bibles, for there was no word in English for "pascha." All the
pre-KJB Bibles, except the Geneva, have Easter all through them as
synonymous with Passover. The modern Greeks call the word, believe it or
not, “EASTER.” “Easter” is also the man responsible for the invention of
the word "Passover." Did you also know that the Bibles that predate the
A.V. Bible use the word "Easter” more than the AV? Did you also know that
these English Bibles used the word synonymously? Did you also know that
Martin Luther s German Bible uses "Oster," Passoffer, and a transliteration
of "pascha" synonymously? Same error that you have found!

24. Do you know what John Bunyan said, when asked by a university man, "How
dare you preach, not having the original scriptures (sound familiar)?”
Bunyan said, "Do you have them . . . ? "NO," replied the scholar, "But I
have what I believe to be a true copy of the original,” “and I,” said
Bunyan "believe the English Bible (Geneva Bible) to be a true copy,
too. The scholar rode away. I wonder how Bunyan could have said that
without Peter Ruckman??? (from "John Bunyan the Immortal Dreamer” by W.
Burgess McCreary - Gospel Trumpet Co., Anderson, IN —1928, page 38)

25. Do you know that Bill Dowel, president of your sister college - Baptist
Bible College; said in the "Baptist Bible Tribune," I would not retain a
professor at Baptist Bible College who does not believe that our
translation of the Bible is the of God." Do you think he is a Ruckmanite?
Would you be fired under that criteria? Aren’t you fortunate?

26. Are you aware that the Public Relations Director of your college,
Richard Worsham, said in writing, "All our staff believes the King James
Version (1611) is the infallible, inerrant Word of God." Do you have
Ruckmanites at your college? Tsk tsk! He wrote this December 6, 1979.
Where were you then? Maybe, he missed you? Or maybe, you made him recant?

27. Do you know the president of your college, A.V. Henderson, said in
writing that he has been preaching the "infallible Word of God" for 43
years. How do you guys get away with it, and we can t? Incidently, what
version do you think he preached for 43 years—the Greek???

28. Why don’t you start your own "The English Bible Has Errors,
Immersionist Assembly? You could all yourselves Clark-ites. Why don’t you
separate yourselves from those who believe "Thy word is very pure" and "Thy
word is true from the beginning.”

29. The most important question of all is, “How in the world did you ever
become a Bible Professor?

(undated ­ written in the early eighties)
 Previous Message All Messages Next Message 
  Check It Out!

  Topica Channels
 Best of Topica
 Art & Design
 Books, Movies & TV
 Food & Drink
 Health & Fitness
 News & Information
 Personal Finance
 Personal Technology
 Small Business
 Travel & Leisure
 Women & Family

  Start Your Own List!
Email lists are great for debating issues or publishing your views.
Start a List Today!

© 2001 Topica Inc. TFMB
Concerned about privacy? Topica is TrustE certified.
See our Privacy Policy.