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[Invisible Church] Evans/Nachimson Debate
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John Henry
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Apr 24, 2005 23:27 PDT
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PART FIVE
THE END OF YOUR SEARCH FOR AN IMAGINARY CHURCH
(Jeffery Nachimson’s last letter annotated)
4. I don’t really think you want to discuss the context Acts
2. “It would be much better if you do prove.” (Conceited Ass - That is with
apology to every four legged donkey in the wilderness). –Jeffrey Nachimson
As a matter of fact, I do. No Holy Spirit Baptizer in Acts 1
or 2, only a Jesus BAPTIZER (Matt. 3:11). It is a figment of your
imagination. If calling names vents your frustration at not being able to
prove your fantasies, have at it. It is perfectly legitimate to demand
proof for mystical assumptions. – Herb Evans
Once again, who’se (sic) the “young smart aleck.” You’re
obviously a hypocrite according to your own standard. Typical!! Anyway,
Herb (Biblically Illiterate) Evans, here is your answer to 4.A. –Jeffrey
Nachimson
My so called standards are for those contentious and
suspicious folks, who wish to correspond with me. The standards are
designed to screen out triflers. Obviously, you squeezed past them, but not
for long. – Herb Evans
The context of Acts 2 is that Peter (the minister of the
circumcision - Gal 2 - Acts 2) is preaching to Israel, and the men of
Judea. He quotes Joel 2 (A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE SECOND ADVENT), and
doesn’t say one word about the substitution, blood atonement of Christ
[Like Paul in Acts 16, right? – Herb Evans], but rather declares unto them
that they are guilty of CRUCIFYING THEIR MESSIAH!
Hence, every one of those Israelites being pricked in their
heart, asks “WHAT MUST WE DO’? [Who pricked them in the heart? The Law?
–Herb Evans] Verse 30 - Throne, Verse 35 - thy foes, thy footstool. Then in
Acts 2:38 every one of them are told 1) REPENT (3:19) - Reference to the
Advent), BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Jewish Baptism) [NO SUCH
THING, UNLESS YOU ARE A CUP! - HERB EVANS]. FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
After they Repent and are Baptized, they received the gift of the Holy
Ghost. Is that you, now? Not according to Gal. 3:14, Acts 16:31 and Eph.
1:13,14. How’s that for Pauline revelations, sonny. [There he goes again
with something he read from down south, and I am old enough to be his
daddy–Herb Evans]. The message in Acts is a national repentance just as it
will be in the tribulation. The message is so transitionally [Now, there is
a slippery word for you! – Herb Evans] set-up that the tribulation could
have been set in or the church age could presume (sic). This truth is hit
home in 2, 3:12:19, 21-26 (the times of refreshing and the restitution of
all things happens at the ADVENT; 4:8,10-12, and how about 7:56 - where is
Jesus Standing (he’s not seated Heb. 12:1-3), waiting to return to Israel
repents. They didn’t. Acts 8. – Jeffrey Nachimson
Well, what have we here, Jewish Baptism to get the remission
of sins? You have been hanging around the Campbellites too long. Do they
get in the ONE BODY by this Jewish baptism, since the wall of partition is
removed by the cross? Yup, that is me in Acts 2:38, 41, 47. I don’t believe
in baptism to get rid of one’s sins in any dispensation in either
Testament! I am not a Catholic or a Campbellite! You’re not doing so good,
big daddy (from Sonny). You told me that since the cross, there is ONE
body. Do you want your cake and eat it too? What did the Jewish repentance
in Acts 2 usher in? What nationality were the repentant ones in Acts 2?
What nationality was Peter? Who was added to the Lord in Acts 5? Gentiles?
If the rest of the Jews would have repented, would the other Jews, who were
in the ONE body by the cross, get out of the ONE body. Transitional?
Organic? Invisible, eh? Where do you shop? – Herb Evans
Therefore since the tribulation wasn’t set in, the Jews in the
passage that were told to “Save yourselves from this untoward generation,”
were added to them. There was never any dispute about that. Acts 2:41-46
describes what they did. (They even met IN THE TEMPLE) Try that for
context, Big mouth. You remind me of . . . (. . . magazine) At times your
mouths are bigger than your intellect or spirituality!! – Jeffrey Nachimson
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but they will never
disprove me. Isn’t it strange that they are in the temple in Acts 15:42 and
as late as Acts 21through 26? You better do something mighty quick in your
rightly dividing schemes. Ho Hum! Perhaps, your spiritual guidance will
help our big mouths? --Herb Evans
In verse 47, “The Lord ADDED,” in 5:14 they are “ADDED to the
Lord.” So why in Acts didn’t he add them to the church in Acts 5? He did in
Acts 2. – Jeffrey Nachimson
Duh, is it because they were still in the semi-Jewish
dispensation, in Acts 5:14 in the temple, waiting for national repentance?
– Herb Evans
Is it God’s doing in one passage, and up to the people in
another? If the question sounds “redundant” (that’s probably the most
magniloquent etymological phoneting [sic] Quoth you’re familiar with) it is
an example of the “time wasting”CRAP you’ve sent me thus far. – Jeffrey
Nachimson
Is CRAP a Greek word for dung? Still, we will see to it that
we waste no more of your time and vice versa. – Herb Evans
In regards to Acts 5:14, READ YOUR BIBLE! If you notice
carefully, IN THE CONTEXT the believers were added to the Lord, AFTER, “the
rest durst no man join himself to them... I figured you would try the “slip
and slide routine”, so here is the crown point - “it would be better if you
do prove” [But didn’t you say that “Do prove” talk was from “conceited
asses,” smart alecks,” and “hypocrites?”–Herb Evans]. As the brother said
at work - “Some folks spend their time in “IDIOT WORLD” - You ought to take
a hint) See Acts 19-26 (vs 24) where there is no doubt about “do prove”
point. Your exegetical methods are a joke. – Jeffrey Nachimson
You should quit hinting and begin shedding some light. Stop
being evasive and vague. Okay, so you don’t like Ebonics. What is it that I
am supposed to prove here? Acts 5 is your proof text; the burden of proof
is upon you. – Herb Evans
As for Acts 9:26, your answer is in Acts 9:27! The wording of
the book of Acts is clearly between 59-65 A.D. [Clear where? Not in Acts
9:27 – Herb Evans].______ gives I Cor. 59-65 A.D. ________ gives I Cor. a
date of 59 A.D. [was _____ inspired or did he speak EX Cathedra, and am I
bound o what ______ says? Stay in the Book. – Herb Evans]. That’s one proof
[??? - Herb Evans], but my point was that Luke was with Paul (Acts 27-28,
Col 4:14; II Tim. 4:11; Gal. 1:11-12; Eph. 3:1-3). Luke had the Pauline
revelation when he wrote Acts. Supporting my “allegations” [and that is all
that they are – Herb Evans] are the dates of the writings, Luke’s traveling
with Paul, and the revelation of Jesus Christ to Paul concerning the
finished atonement of Christ with salvation by grace through faith without
works and the mystery of Christ’s spiritual body, the church! – Jeffrey
Nachimson
Which spiritual body, the church? Oh! The local church is not
spiritual? The question is not whether Luke was ever with Paul; the
question is whether Paul had anything to do with the events in Acts 2 and
Acts 5. Any speculation of Paul’s influence because he might have been with
Luke won’t hold water. No mysterious church in Acts 2 to 5. – Herb Evans
Gal 1:22 is a reference to Paul not carrying “the message
himself. Therefore he is unknown “by face” exactly as the A.V. 1611 states
the matter. The “churches in Judea” (Acts 9:31) never did get to know Paul
personally before Acts 15 because his ‘coming in and going out” was at
Jerusalem (Acts 9:28), not throughout Judea!! [Do you know which province
of Jerusalem is in? Tsk! Tsk! – Herb Evans]. I Thess 2:14 is an adequate
proof text as well. As you said, individuals are “in Christ,” and so are
churches. Local churches are made up of individuals. That’s how the
churches are in Christ. They were placed there at salvation (Eph. 2:10;
Gal. 3:36-27; II Cor. 5:17; Eph 1:4-7; II Tim. 2:9. Like the Bible says, We
are ONE BODY IN CHRIST. (Rom. 12:5; Eph. 2:14-15). –Jeffrey Nachimson
Was the pre-Pentecost church made up of individuals? Do local
churches get saved and get placed in the ONE mysterious church? Really? You
sure have an imagination! Do you make these things up as you go along? I
shudder to think of the explanation you give for dead bodies “IN CHRIST,” 1
Thess. 4:16. You probably have these dead bodies in heaven in your
mysterious church or else advocate dead spiritual bodies. – Herb Evans
Eph. 1:10 as Gal. 3:17 is a reference to God’s work through
Christ. When God works in Christ, it is a reference to something he has
Christ do. You can’t provide one scripture that anyone was born again or
“IN Christ” before the New Testament (Acts 2). –Jeffrey Nachimson
What about Isaac (Gal. 4:29), and what about Nicodemus being
told that he must be born again to say nothing about the Jews in John
1:12,13. What about the grace “IN CHRIST” before the world began (2 Tim..
1:9) – Herb Evans
That’s how the “BODY” was converted into an ORGANIC SPIRITUAL
BODY. – Jeffrey Nachimson
A church or a corporate body does not get “converted”;
individuals are converted. All that you have to do is provide the record of
any local church being thusly converted into a mysterious body. – Herb Evans
Hey, you can’t provide one verse of anyone “in Christ” in the
tribulation or Millenium (sic) either. Think about that a while. – Nachimson
Rev. 14:13 is a good try, if I am allowed only 10% of the
stretches and liberties that you take. – Herb Evans
“IN CHRIST” is “en” (locative), a direct reference to location
a direct reference to location. (that’s the position you mentioned in your
closing) “En” is also a word that is translated “by” and “with”
(instrumental) (I Cor. 12:13). A bit more than “leading” someone to be
water baptized. – Jeffrey Nachimson
Well, thank you for the Greek lesson, but have you noted the
locative BAPTIZING “EN: water of Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, and John 1:26, 31,
33 and the locative BAPTIZING “EN” the Spirit in John 1:33. Have you
considered the locative FALLING ASLEEP “EN” Christ, 1 Cor. 15:18, 1 Thess.
4:16? Is this on earth or in heaven? What is the location of INSTRUCTORS
“EN” Christ, 1 Cor. 4:15? Heaven or earth? – Herb Evans
It’s a SPIRITUAL ORGANIC REALITY! Obviously the saints in
heaven (in the Church age are “in Christ), like the churches because we are
all IN THE BODY! Obviously you haven’t comprehended with ALL SAINTS what is
the “breadth and length and depth and height (3:15; 3:10; 1:20, 21; 2:6;
1:3, 10) at this body that fills the immense abyss in the universe (“the
deep” Gen. 1:2) and the oneness with it. This comprehension is the distance
between this body and its head. The exact measurements can be found in
Exodus 22-40! This should answer your simple questions under 4.D. –Jeffrey
Nachimson
All I want to know is, if the individuals “IN CHRIST” and the
Judaean churches “IN CHRIST” are in heaven or on earth. The things “IN
CHRIST” and the things “IN CHRIST ON EARTH” will be gathered together in
the future. Can they be already together NOW (Eph, 1:10)? My questions are
simple, because there is simplicity in Christ (2 Cor. 11:3) not complicated
imagination. Your answers, which are not even answers, are consulted;
simple answers would spoil and expose your obvious, mystical obfuscation. –
Herb Evans
Refering (sic) to 4.E., exactly. The context of verse 15 is
verse 11, 13-14, 16, 18-20. Also see Romans 8:24 and Eph. 1:13,14 The Lord
purchased your body (I Cor. 7:23), so keep it sanctified (I Thess. 4:3).
Don’t stretch the passage further than what it says. Paul told us how we
are joined to the Lord now (I Cor. 6:17). Paul’s point is to flee
fornication not only because you are bought and paid for, but because sex
with a harlot constitutes the essense (sic) of marriage! (Gen. 2:24, I Cor.
6:16, Eph. 5:31; Matt.19) That sure shed’s light on I Tim. 3:1-2. Your last
statement under 4.E. is not CLEAR. Joining to the Lord is spiritual (vs
17), to a harlot is FLESH (vs 16). GO FIGURE. PAR FOR THE COURSE. – Jeffrey
Nachimson
It would be nice if you would quit beating around the bush and
evading the questions and not shedding any light on anything. Our bodies,
our flesh, are MEMBERS of Christ . . . period! They can be also joined to a
harlot or a wife. I didn’t ask you if your joining to the Lord was
spiritual or not; I asked you if your body, soul, or spirit was joined to
the Lord in heaven, or something else. Why can’t you just answer the
question? – Herb Evans
4.F. Who cares what you “BELIEVE” (Looks like you have a
problem like you accuse others of having). Gal. 3:26 sure sheds light on I
Cor. 12:27 (“YE”). Therefore the context is going to follow the same
pattern. “As many of you.” –Jeffrey Nachimson
See what I get for believing that you were right? Okay! You
were really wrong; how is that? Say something concrete; don’t hint! What
kind of baloney (Greek for bologna) are you dishing out? – Herb Evans
It is interesting that he writes to “the churches of Galatia”
but they’re not all baptized? Come on, Herb. It’s funny that I have had
these same arguments with “Church of Christ” elders. Poor testimony.
Anyway, obviously you avoided the context once again Vs. 26 -spiritual, vs.
28 - spiritual (describing verse 27, vs. 29 spiritual; vs 2 - Spirit, vs. 3
- Spirit, Vs. 5 - Spirit, vs. 14 - Spirit, vs. 16 spiritual, verse 22 -
spiritual, vs. 24 - spiritual, vs. 25 - spiritual. Don’t be caught
suffering from “Water Baptism” syndrome or a “Splash fixation!” The ones
Baptized INTO CHRIST in verse 27 are “therefore” One IN Christ in verse 28
with no racial, or social, or sexual distinction spiritually. There are in
the LOCAL CHURCH. Koo Koo for Coco Puffs! – Jeffrey Nachimson
I wondered where you got that JEWISH baptism FOR salvation
stuff. The thing that is funny is watching you try to BLUFF your way
through your difficulties. Obviously, you don’t have or ever had a number
of converts awaiting water baptism. As for lining up with cults, I have
heard the same accusations from JW’s as they accuse me of lining up with
the Catholics for believing the trinity.
Paul also speaks after the manner of men sometimes (Gal.
3:15). The real “fixation” is really your Holy Spirit BAPTIZER, who never
baptized anyone in all the New Testament. You made it all up, for He is
never a BAPTIZER, for He is the ELEMENT. Jesus is the BAPTIZER (Matt.
3:11)! You don’t think water baptism is spiritual, neither do the Stamites.
And you call yourself a “Baptist” preacher. – Herb Evans
Romans 6. Alright the answer is in Hebrews 9:14. The atonement
of Christ was offered through the ETERNAL SPIRIT. The way the sacrifice was
made reveals that Christ’s substitutionary atonement was an ETERNAL
SACRIFICE. The blood is too. Cod’s blood is ETERNAL (Acts 20:28). Since the
Christian is washed in the blood (1 Cor. 6; Rev. 1:5), the blood must be
applied in the spirit realm. Look at verse 12 - He entered once into the
Holy Place, BY (not with) His Own Blood. It went through on INVISIBLE
CATALYST. [PLAYING THE INVISIBLE CHEMIST? – Herb Evans] The blood is
located and is applied in the spirit realm, right where Christ’s spiritual
body I located. See Hebrew 9:23 and again Eph. 3:18; Gen. 1:1-2; Job 38:30;
Psalm 148:1-4; Job 41. That’s just the “tip of the iceberg.” In order for
this to be applied spiritual, it would take an eternal Sacrifice through an
ETERNAL SPIRIT. Therefore it is by BAPTISM (There’s one answer for 7.A.)
As far as your “with” is concerning, notice that the Christian is baptized
(immersed) into his death, but is Crucified WITH Christ. The with is
correct! The Holy Spirit literally makes the Christian apart from the
death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Therefore we are crucified with
him (Text), and Raised with him (Eph. 2:6). This the baptism the disciples
were told they would have to be a part of (Matt. 20:23). How’s that smart
guy. Obviously when the Spirit of God baptizes, more than one transaction
takes place at the same time (Rom. 6:3). This passage is much more than a
picture, its literal. As far as “is death organic?” It is eternal (Rev 20),
spiritual (Rom. 6:23, and practical (Cal. 5; I Cor. 15, etc.) What are
those attributes of? Christ’s death brings life (Rom. 5:8-9). – Jeffrey
Nachimson
4.H. Once again. You have to be in Christ to be crucified with
him, buried with him, and resurrected with Him. IN Him, With Him, IN Him
FULLNESS, and completion. SPIRITUAL CIRCUMCISION (Abraham was the physical
picture). The baptism in Colossians 2 is in reference to the spiritual
operation Cod does with his sword (Heb. 4:12). God does the rising in this
passage, not the preacher. And quickening is in direct relation to the
“risen with.” Again it is BY BAPTISM (I Cor. 12:13). Oh, yes the scriptures
call water baptism a FIGURE, not a SYMBOL. Kind of like the “FIGURE OF THE
TRUE” where the physical figures picture the SPIRITUAL. Water baptism
outwardly pictures Spirit baptism. – Jefferey Nachimson
A baptism by the Holy Spirit does not exist! Do you make up
this metaphysical jargon as you go along. What an imagination! When someone
pins you down on concrete scriptural terms, you break into the wildest and
weirdest spiritualization of the scriptures that I have ever seen. Are you
an “organic” gardener. What do you use for fertilizer? Dung? Oh! That is
right, you have another word for that. – Herb Evans
4.I. Send your article. That will be thoroughly dissected and
critiqued too. I’ve read it once. I don’t like sour milk! Send me another
copy. I do have a similar work by a man out of Lawton, O.K. “OLD WIVES
FABLES!” – Jeffrey Nachimson
I’ve enclosed the article (1 Cor. 12:13); YOU NEED NOT
RESPOND. –Herb Evans
5.A. I did “force a point.” It’s in the quote - 5. There’s no
unsaved members in Christ’s spiritual body. “Pre- Pentecost Church
members?” Did something happen to them at Pentecost, Herb? Yes it did. Five
things. Guess? As far as my “ecumenical church” goes, one of the greatest
soul-winners in Church history was a “lose your salvationist.” - John
Wesley. Your “local church only” contained Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King
Jr., Rockefeller, and Harry Truman. How about that? Jerry Falwell? Franklin
Godsee? If Swaggert and Baker are saved, then there they are. That’s all I
can say. Baby sprinkling Luther did more for God than you have. He didn’t
waste his time and ministry writing debatable articles in various
Fundamental newspapers, leaving his address for all, and then play innocent
when someone writes. Are you “purer than that?” – Jeffrey Nachimson
Yes, as a matter of fact, I am purer than that. I didn’t put
my address in Fundamental papers and encourage people to write me. That is
your slander. The editor is the one, who did that on his own. – Herb Evans
6. A. Regarding your supposed proof-text in 1 Tim. 3:12,
obviously you forgot to read verse 11 - “their WIVES.” Anyway if you want
to make the deacons all married to same women, go ahead. Other than that,
it is a stupid excuse [perhaps because it was a stupid objection to begin
with – Herb Evans ]. Find in Eph.5 where it says “Husbands love your wife?
What’s the matter, Son [again, using commentary talk, since I am old enough
to be his father – Herb Evans], having a hard time? “Carrying language use
too far.” Sure. Christ only has one church. This one church will be
preserved a glorious church (Eph 5) and even will give Christ glory, WORLD
WITHOUT END (Direct reference to Rev. 21-22). Spirit baptism puts you into
Christ’s Spiritual body, which is exactly why we can suffer and rejoice
with its members (I Cor. 12:26). Are you telling me you can’t do that with
a member of another local assembly or just a Christian friend? Speaking of
your earlier reference in Cal. 6:1, this certainly applies with Gal. 6:10
right in the context (HOUSEHOLD). – Jeffrey Nachimson
No problem ol’ boy; I wasn’t looking for a mismatch of a
plural and a singular in Ephesians 5; you were. I found one in 1 Tim 3:12.
You were the one that complained about a plural/singular mismatch and
invented the RULE that it was a no-no. So, don’t find fault with me; find
fault with Paul or your own man made up rule. The Holy Spirit does not
baptize, and a Holy spirit Baptizer or a Holy Spirit baptism does not occur
anywhere in the New Testament. Did you feel, see, hear, or sense it when
you were so baptized? I sure didn’t. But the folks in Acts 2 did, ask any
Charismatic. When was the last time that you suffered and rejoiced with
your unknown, invisible church members in China and India and in Heaven?
There are many things that I can do with non-local church members or even
unsaved people, for that matter, but that is not the issue. I cannot do
anything with invisible folks. Still, do you communicate with your fellow
members in heaven?
For some reason, like a Campbellite with water, every time you
see the word “spiritual” and “church” and “body,” you imagine some
invisible, ethereal entity. The Book of Galatians is written to the
CHURCHES (plural-Gal. 1:2). Still, the stretch and exaggerations are with
you. – Herb Evans
Christ and his body are one spirit (now). The husband and wife
have a physical relationship. Christ and his Church now have a spiritual
relationship (1 Cor. 6:17) again. Where did you get that annoying
unbiblical word, MYSTICIZE! Eph. 5:32 sums up Eph. 5:30-31. The mystery is
that Christ is one with his body being “50,000,000,000” light years up
(Physically), and this pictured by Adam and Eve. Adam gave his body to get
his bride (Gen. 2), so did Christ (Eph. 5). We’ll have a flesh and bone
body just like Christ’s, at the rapture (Gen. 5:2). – Jeffrey Nachimson
It is too bad that the local church does not have a
“spiritual” relationship with Christ. But then our physical bodies are
merely members of Christ (1 Cor. 6:15). Well, I got the word in the same
place that you got that unbiblical word “organic.” In my case, “mysticize”
is the only way to identify your unbiblical theories and invisible
entities, the ones that you make up. Now, you fling out many proof texts
without any rationale’ or explanation attached to them, and you say many
things just to give an answer, pat answers mostly, talking points. Adam
sinned and Christ did not, another irrelevant, Jeffrey comparison flung to
the wind. Are we going to be male and female at the rapture (Gen. 5:2)? It
seems that you do not know what a biblical mystery is. Try mysticizing or
mysteriousizing some of the other Bible mysteries as you have this one. –
Herb Evans
A person baptized by the Spirit is found in Eph. 4:5; Rom. 6;
Col. 2; Acts 1:5 (Chew on this one a while - The proof’s in the pudding);
Gal. 3:27; John 17:21; Matt. 20:23, Matt. 3 - Notice John wanted this
baptism Jesus had to give. It wasn’t just power. John came in the Spirit
and power of Elijah (Luke 1). Taking I Cor. 12:13 is just the same as
taking II Tim. 3:16 away (One of a kind), as II Tim. 2:15; I Tim. 6:20;
6:10; Also see Acts 10:43-47; 11:15-16. Also see Rom. 7:14 - That’s a good
one for you. – Jeffrey Nachimson
The Holy Spirit never baptizes even once in the N.T. You are
operating under a false premise and then arguing in a circle. Jesus is the
BAPTIZER not the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11); the Holy Spirit is the ELEMENT.
You are using an unscriptural term/function. I’ve chewed on your church and
body references a while and most of them unquestionably tasted local
church, the exception being your irrelevant references. Romans 7:4. Is the
crucified body of our Lord, Pal. Not your invention, a mystical, invisible,
universal body. – Herb Evans
7. B. is easy. Ephesus is the locality of the body in Ephesus.
[What not heaven? –Herb Evans]. Still “the church of Cod” was purchased
with God’s blood (matching Eph. 5), which is a reference to the body of
Christ. Christ died for his body. If Christ died for each local church, you
would have to say Christ died for the churches (my original point) Christ
died for the church, no matter where it is located. The church at Ephesus
had more than one locality. What about Corinth? (I Cor. 14:34). –Jeffrey
Nachimson
No, I do not have to say anything that you say. Who died and
left you boss? If you are saying that it means local churches only, when in
the plural form is used but is subject to interpretation, when a singular
form is used, you are wresting the scriptures. Of course, you are the one
that we must allow to interpret which church is meant by such passages. You
have yet to inform us of the mechanics for interpreting them other than
capricious arbitrary mechanics. The following occurrences of the singular
form of the word “church, which is local, dispelling such a false notion:
Matt. 18:17; Acts 8:1, 11:22, 26; 13:1; 14:23, 27; 15:22; 18:22; Rom.
16:1,5; 1 Cor. 1:2; 4:17; 6:4; 11:18; 12:28; 14:23, and on and on. The
churches of 1 Cor. 14:34 have nothing to do with Acts 20:28, which refers
to each local church and the elders that were present. Each local church
was purchased by His blood, a small task if Christ died for the world and
also purchased the O.T. “congregation” (Ps. 74:2). – Herb Evans
[“COULD they feed your church in the sky?”– Jeff quotes Herb
Evans]. Don’t have to. They’re with the “Sheperd (sic) and Bishop of your
souls” (1 Pet. 2:25). – Jeffrey Nachimson
Well, here is an unexpected admission. The saved ones down
here are not up there in the sky with the Shepherd and Bishop of their
souls, as you have been contending. That is what I have been trying to tell
you. – Herb Evans
8. A. Yes, but in Eph. 1:1 he’s addressing them just like an
individual Christian. In Col. 1 you find a similar salutation with “the
church, which is his body” mentioned right in the same chapter. In your
article you said the church of Gal. 1:13 was “the local church of
Jerusalem.” Make up your mind. Acts 8:1 - You forget that the church of
Jerusalem contained all the members of the body because they were located
together at the time. As for Acts 9:31 you missed it. They rested from the
persecution (Gal. 1:13) when they heard Paul got saved. That’s what you
need to Compare, dodo! Ha Ha - A direct contextual reference to Gal 1:13.
Sure all my proof texts are in your favor.
In your own mind. “You’re a legend in your own mind.”
Delusions of gradeur”(sic). (There’s a psychological phenomena (sic) for
you). As for my “abilities”, see Rom. 12:3; Gal. 6:3, and II Tim. 2:15.
“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his
servants the prophets.” Amos 3:7 (See Rev. 19:10). – Jeffrey Nachimson
Hold on, while I take off my shoes again. I didn’t realize
that you were such a special servant and prophet, which the rest of us are
not. You must certainly have been revealed some secret things, so secret
that no one else knows about them or even has heard about them, for that
matter. You really think lot of yourself. --DoDo Herb Evans
You are not very impressive at all. You fell flat on your
face, biblically. Come on down south and let us teach you some Bible, boy!
– Jeffrey Nachimson
True, I am not trying to impress you as you are me. Well, like
the mystical baptism, I did not realize it or feel it, when I fell flat on
my face. That is not very impressive, I agree. Still, I thought I was
supposed to be taught by your letter. What happened? Did you see, hear,
feel it. Is there something magical or better yet mysterious about the
south? And I am a Caucasian. – Herb Evans
I still don’t think you’re ready for the meat. [Probably not,
I didn’t get any this trip. – Herb Evans]. If you don’t have anything good,
quit wasting my time. I’m ready for 1 Cor. 12. and Matt. 16. The ball is in
your court. Most of your “answers” were reverse questions. Although stupid,
I got ‘em. Have a nice day. – Jeffrey Nachimson
Okay, I will quit wasting your time, although it was your
nickel. Enclosed is the 1 Cor. 12:13 article. The church in Matt. 16 is the
same kind of church as is in Matthew 18 and Rev. 1-3. Since neither
Pentecost or the crucifixion occurred yet, I guess that you cannot claim
it. The word is used by Jesus 22 times anyway, and if you were correct
about Matt. 16:16, and you are not, it would be 21 to 1. Not very good
odds. – Herb Evans
IN CHRIST (Spiritually Baptized) JEFF NACHIMSON
What does it feel like? Did you get the warm fuzzies? Or did
you speak in tongues?
IN CHRIST (water baptized) Herb Evans
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PART FIVE<br><br>
<br>
</font>THE END OF YOUR SEARCH FOR AN IMAGINARY CHURCH<br><br>
(Jeffery Nachimson’s last letter annotated)<br><br>
<br><br>
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4. I
don’t really think you want to discuss the context Acts 2. “It would be
much better if you do prove.” (Conceited Ass - That is with apology to
every four legged donkey in the wilderness). –Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<font size=2> <br><br>
</font>
As a matter of fact, I do. No Holy Spirit Baptizer in Acts 1 or 2, only a
Jesus BAPTIZER (Matt. 3:11). It is a figment of your imagination. If
calling names vents your frustration at not being able to prove your
fantasies, have at it. It is perfectly legitimate to demand proof for
mystical assumptions. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
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Once again,
who’se (sic) the “young smart aleck.” You’re obviously a hypocrite
according to your own standard. Typical!! Anyway, Herb (Biblically
Illiterate) Evans, here is your answer to 4.A. –Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
My so
called standards are for those contentious and suspicious folks, who wish
to correspond with me. The standards are designed to screen out triflers.
Obviously, you squeezed past them, but not for long. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
The
context of Acts 2 is that Peter (the minister of the circumcision - Gal 2
- Acts 2) is preaching to Israel, and the men of Judea. He quotes Joel 2
(A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE SECOND ADVENT), and doesn’t say one word about
the substitution, blood atonement of Christ [Like Paul in Acts 16, right?
– Herb Evans], but rather declares unto them that they are guilty of
CRUCIFYING THEIR MESSIAH! <br><br>
Hence,
every one of those Israelites being pricked in their heart, asks “WHAT
MUST WE DO’? [Who pricked them in the heart? The Law? –Herb Evans] Verse
30 - Throne, Verse 35 - thy foes, thy footstool. Then in Acts 2:38 every
one of them are told 1) REPENT (3:19) - Reference to the Advent),
BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (Jewish Baptism) [NO SUCH THING,
UNLESS YOU ARE A CUP! - HERB EVANS]. FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. After
they Repent and are Baptized, they received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Is that you, now? Not according to Gal. 3:14, Acts 16:31 and Eph.
1:13,14. How’s that for Pauline revelations, sonny. [There he goes again
with something he read from down south, and I am old enough to be his
daddy–Herb Evans]. The message in Acts is a national repentance just as
it will be in the tribulation. The message is so transitionally [Now,
there is a slippery word for you! – Herb Evans] set-up that the
tribulation could have been set in or the church age could presume (sic).
This truth is hit home in 2, 3:12:19, 21-26 (the times of refreshing and
the restitution of all things happens at the ADVENT; 4:8,10-12, and how
about 7:56 - where is Jesus Standing (he’s not seated Heb. 12:1-3),
waiting to return to Israel repents. They didn’t. Acts 8. – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Well,
what have we here, Jewish Baptism to get the remission of sins? You have
been hanging around the Campbellites too long. Do they get in the ONE
BODY by this Jewish baptism, since the wall of partition is removed by
the cross? Yup, that is me in Acts 2:38, 41, 47. I don’t believe in
baptism to get rid of one’s sins in any dispensation in either Testament!
I am not a Catholic or a Campbellite! You’re not doing so good, big daddy
(from Sonny). You told me that since the cross, there is ONE body. Do you
want your cake and eat it too? What did the Jewish repentance in Acts 2
usher in? What nationality were the repentant ones in Acts 2? What
nationality was Peter? Who was added to the Lord in Acts 5? Gentiles? If
the rest of the Jews would have repented, would the other Jews, who were
in the ONE body by the cross, get out of the ONE body. Transitional?
Organic? Invisible, eh? Where do you shop? – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Therefore since the tribulation wasn’t set in, the Jews in the passage
that were told to “Save yourselves from this untoward generation,” were
added to them. There was never any dispute about that. Acts 2:41-46
describes what they did. (They even met IN THE TEMPLE) Try that for
context, Big mouth. You remind me of . . . (. . . magazine) At times your
mouths are bigger than your intellect or spirituality!! – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Sticks
and stones may break my bones, but they will never disprove me. Isn’t it
strange that they are in the temple in Acts 15:42 and as late as Acts
21through 26? You better do something mighty quick in your rightly
dividing schemes. Ho Hum! Perhaps, your spiritual guidance will help our
big mouths? --Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
In
verse 47, “The Lord ADDED,” in 5:14 they are “ADDED to the Lord.” So why
in Acts didn’t he add them to the church in Acts 5? He did in Acts 2. –
Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Duh,
is it because they were still in the semi-Jewish dispensation, in Acts
5:14 in the temple, waiting for national repentance? – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Is it
God’s doing in one passage, and up to the people in another? If the
question sounds “redundant” (that’s probably the most magniloquent
etymological phoneting [sic] Quoth you’re familiar with) it is an example
of the “time wasting”CRAP you’ve sent me thus far. – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Is
CRAP a Greek word for dung? Still, we will see to it that we waste no
more of your time and vice versa. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
In
regards to Acts 5:14, READ YOUR BIBLE! If you notice carefully, IN THE
CONTEXT the believers were added to the Lord, AFTER, “the rest durst no
man join himself to them... I figured you would try the “slip and slide
routine”, so here is the crown point - “it would be better if you do
prove” [But didn’t you say that “Do prove” talk was from “conceited
asses,” smart alecks,” and “hypocrites?”–Herb Evans]. As the brother said
at work - “Some folks spend their time in “IDIOT WORLD” - You ought to
take a hint) See Acts 19-26 (vs 24) where there is no doubt about “do
prove” point. Your exegetical methods are a joke. – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
You
should quit hinting and begin shedding some light. Stop being evasive and
vague. Okay, so you don’t like Ebonics. What is it that I am supposed to
prove here? Acts 5 is your proof text; the burden of proof is upon you.
– Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
As for
Acts 9:26, your answer is in Acts 9:27! The wording of the book of Acts
is clearly between 59-65 A.D. [Clear where? Not in Acts 9:27 – Herb
Evans].______ gives I Cor. 59-65 A.D. ________ gives I Cor. a date of 59
A.D. [was _____ inspired or did he speak EX Cathedra, and am I bound o
what ______ says? Stay in the Book. – Herb Evans]. That’s one proof [???
- Herb Evans], but my point was that Luke was with Paul (Acts 27-28, Col
4:14; II Tim. 4:11; Gal. 1:11-12; Eph. 3:1-3). Luke had the Pauline
revelation when he wrote Acts. Supporting my “allegations” [and that is
all that they are – Herb Evans] are the dates of the writings, Luke’s
traveling with Paul, and the revelation of Jesus Christ to Paul
concerning the finished atonement of Christ with salvation by grace
through faith without works and the mystery of Christ’s spiritual body,
the church! – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Which
spiritual body, the church? Oh! The local church is not spiritual? The
question is not whether Luke was ever with Paul; the question is whether
Paul had anything to do with the events in Acts 2 and Acts 5. Any
speculation of Paul’s influence because he might have been with Luke
won’t hold water. No mysterious church in Acts 2 to 5. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Gal
1:22 is a reference to Paul not carrying “the message himself. Therefore
he is unknown “by face” exactly as the A.V. 1611 states the matter. The
“churches in Judea” (Acts 9:31) never did get to know Paul personally
before Acts 15 because his ‘coming in and going out” was at Jerusalem
(Acts 9:28), not throughout Judea!! [Do you know which province of
Jerusalem is in? Tsk! Tsk! – Herb Evans]. I Thess 2:14 is an adequate
proof text as well. As you said, individuals are “in Christ,” and so are
churches. Local churches are made up of individuals. That’s how the
churches are in Christ. They were placed there at salvation (Eph. 2:10;
Gal. 3:36-27; II Cor. 5:17; Eph 1:4-7; II Tim. 2:9. Like the Bible says,
We are ONE BODY IN CHRIST. (Rom. 12:5; Eph. 2:14-15). –Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
Was
the pre-Pentecost church made up of individuals? Do local churches get
saved and get placed in the ONE mysterious church? Really? You sure have
an imagination! Do you make these things up as you go along? I shudder to
think of the explanation you give for dead bodies “IN CHRIST,” 1 Thess.
4:16. You probably have these dead bodies in heaven in your mysterious
church or else advocate dead spiritual bodies. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Eph.
1:10 as Gal. 3:17 is a reference to God’s work through Christ. When God
works in Christ, it is a reference to something he has Christ do. You
can’t provide one scripture that anyone was born again or “IN Christ”
before the New Testament (Acts 2). –Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
What about Isaac (Gal. 4:29), and what about Nicodemus being told that he
must be born again to say nothing about the Jews in John 1:12,13. What
about the grace “IN CHRIST” before the world began (2 Tim.. 1:9) – Herb
Evans <br><br>
<br><br>
That’s
how the “BODY” was converted into an ORGANIC SPIRITUAL BODY. – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
A
church or a corporate body does not get “converted”; individuals are
converted. All that you have to do is provide the record of any local
church being thusly converted into a mysterious body. – Herb Evans
<br><br>
<br><br>
Hey,
you can’t provide one verse of anyone “in Christ” in the tribulation or
Millenium (sic) either. Think about that a while. – Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Rev.
14:13 is a good try, if I am allowed only 10% of the stretches and
liberties that you take. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
“IN
CHRIST” is “en” (locative), a direct reference to location a direct
reference to location. (that’s the position you mentioned in your
closing) “En” is also a word that is translated “by” and “with”
(instrumental) (I Cor. 12:13). A bit more than “leading” someone to be
water baptized. – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Well,
thank you for the Greek lesson, but have you noted the locative BAPTIZING
“EN: water of Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, and John 1:26, 31, 33 and the
locative BAPTIZING “EN” the Spirit in John 1:33. Have you considered the
locative FALLING ASLEEP “EN” Christ, 1 Cor. 15:18, 1 Thess. 4:16? Is this
on earth or in heaven? What is the location of INSTRUCTORS “EN” Christ, 1
Cor. 4:15? Heaven or earth? – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
It’s a
SPIRITUAL ORGANIC REALITY! Obviously the saints in heaven (in the Church
age are “in Christ), like the churches because we are all IN THE BODY!
Obviously you haven’t comprehended with ALL SAINTS what is the “breadth
and length and depth and height (3:15; 3:10; 1:20, 21; 2:6; 1:3, 10) at
this body that fills the immense abyss in the universe (“the deep” Gen.
1:2) and the oneness with it. This comprehension is the distance between
this body and its head. The exact measurements can be found in Exodus
22-40! This should answer your simple questions under 4.D. –Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
All I
want to know is, if the individuals “IN CHRIST” and the Judaean churches
“IN CHRIST” are in heaven or on earth. The things “IN CHRIST” and the
things “IN CHRIST ON EARTH” will be gathered together in the future. Can
they be already together NOW (Eph, 1:10)? My questions are simple,
because there is simplicity in Christ (2 Cor. 11:3) not complicated
imagination. Your answers, which are not even answers, are consulted;
simple answers would spoil and expose your obvious, mystical obfuscation.
– Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Refering (sic) to 4.E., exactly. The context of verse 15 is verse 11,
13-14, 16, 18-20. Also see Romans 8:24 and Eph. 1:13,14 The Lord
purchased your body (I Cor. 7:23), so keep it sanctified (I Thess. 4:3).
Don’t stretch the passage further than what it says. Paul told us how we
are joined to the Lord now (I Cor. 6:17). Paul’s point is to flee
fornication not only because you are bought and paid for, but because sex
with a harlot constitutes the essense (sic) of marriage! (Gen. 2:24, I
Cor. 6:16, Eph. 5:31; Matt.19) That sure shed’s light on I Tim. 3:1-2.
Your last statement under 4.E. is not CLEAR. Joining to the Lord is
spiritual (vs 17), to a harlot is FLESH (vs 16). GO FIGURE. PAR FOR THE
COURSE. – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
It
would be nice if you would quit beating around the bush and evading the
questions and not shedding any light on anything. Our bodies, our flesh,
are MEMBERS of Christ . . . period! They can be also joined to a harlot
or a wife. I didn’t ask you if your joining to the Lord was spiritual or
not; I asked you if your body, soul, or spirit was joined to the Lord in
heaven, or something else. Why can’t you just answer the question? – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
4.F.
Who cares what you “BELIEVE” (Looks like you have a problem like you
accuse others of having). Gal. 3:26 sure sheds light on I Cor. 12:27
(“YE”). Therefore the context is going to follow the same pattern. “As
many of you.” –Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
See
what I get for believing that you were right? Okay! You were really
wrong; how is that? Say something concrete; don’t hint! What kind of
baloney (Greek for bologna) are you dishing out? – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
It is
interesting that he writes to “the churches of Galatia” but they’re not
all baptized? Come on, Herb. It’s funny that I have had these same
arguments with “Church of Christ” elders. Poor testimony. Anyway,
obviously you avoided the context once again Vs. 26 -spiritual, vs. 28 -
spiritual (describing verse 27, vs. 29 spiritual; vs 2 - Spirit, vs. 3 -
Spirit, Vs. 5 - Spirit, vs. 14 - Spirit, vs. 16 spiritual, verse 22 -
spiritual, vs. 24 - spiritual, vs. 25 - spiritual. Don’t be caught
suffering from “Water Baptism” syndrome or a “Splash fixation!” The ones
Baptized INTO CHRIST in verse 27 are “therefore” One IN Christ in verse
28 with no racial, or social, or sexual distinction spiritually. There
are in the LOCAL CHURCH. Koo Koo for Coco Puffs! – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
I
wondered where you got that JEWISH baptism FOR salvation stuff. The thing
that is funny is watching you try to BLUFF your way through your
difficulties. Obviously, you don’t have or ever had a number of converts
awaiting water baptism. As for lining up with cults, I have heard the
same accusations from JW’s as they accuse me of lining up with the
Catholics for believing the trinity. <br><br>
Paul
also speaks after the manner of men sometimes (Gal. 3:15). The real
“fixation” is really your Holy Spirit BAPTIZER, who never baptized anyone
in all the New Testament. You made it all up, for He is never a BAPTIZER,
for He is the ELEMENT. Jesus is the BAPTIZER (Matt. 3:11)! You don’t
think water baptism is spiritual, neither do the Stamites. And you call
yourself a “Baptist” preacher. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Romans
6. Alright the answer is in Hebrews 9:14. The atonement of Christ was
offered through the ETERNAL SPIRIT. The way the sacrifice was made
reveals that Christ’s substitutionary atonement was an ETERNAL SACRIFICE.
The blood is too. Cod’s blood is ETERNAL (Acts 20:28). Since the
Christian is washed in the blood (1 Cor. 6; Rev. 1:5), the blood must be
applied in the spirit realm. Look at verse 12 - He entered once into the
Holy Place, BY (not with) His Own Blood. It went through on INVISIBLE
CATALYST. [PLAYING THE INVISIBLE CHEMIST? – Herb Evans] The blood is
located and is applied in the spirit realm, right where Christ’s
spiritual body I located. See Hebrew 9:23 and again Eph. 3:18; Gen.
1:1-2; Job 38:30; Psalm 148:1-4; Job 41. That’s just the “tip of the
iceberg.” In order for this to be applied spiritual, it would take an
eternal Sacrifice through an ETERNAL SPIRIT. Therefore
it is by BAPTISM (There’s one answer for 7.A.) As far as your “with” is
concerning, notice that the Christian is baptized (immersed) into his
death, but is Crucified WITH Christ. The with is correct! The Holy Spirit
literally makes the Christian apart from the death, burial, and
resurrection of Christ. Therefore we are crucified with him (Text), and
Raised with him (Eph. 2:6). This the baptism the disciples were told they
would have to be a part of (Matt. 20:23). How’s that smart guy. Obviously
when the Spirit of God baptizes, more than one transaction takes place at
the same time (Rom. 6:3). This passage is much more than a picture, its
literal. As far as “is death organic?” It is eternal (Rev 20), spiritual
(Rom. 6:23, and practical (Cal. 5; I Cor. 15, etc.) What are those
attributes of? Christ’s death brings life (Rom. 5:8-9). – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
4.H.
Once again. You have to be in Christ to be crucified with him, buried
with him, and resurrected with Him. IN Him, With Him, IN Him FULLNESS,
and completion. SPIRITUAL CIRCUMCISION (Abraham was the physical
picture). The baptism in Colossians 2 is in reference to the spiritual
operation Cod does with his sword (Heb. 4:12). God does the rising in
this passage, not the preacher. And quickening is in direct relation to
the “risen with.” Again it is BY BAPTISM (I Cor. 12:13). Oh, yes the
scriptures call water baptism a FIGURE, not a SYMBOL. Kind of like the
“FIGURE OF THE TRUE” where the physical figures picture the SPIRITUAL.
Water baptism outwardly pictures Spirit baptism. – Jefferey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
A
baptism by the Holy Spirit does not exist! Do you make up this
metaphysical jargon as you go along. What an imagination! When someone
pins you down on concrete scriptural terms, you break into the wildest
and weirdest spiritualization of the scriptures that I have ever seen.
Are you an “organic” gardener. What do you use for fertilizer? Dung? Oh!
That is right, you have another word for that. – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
4.I. Send your article. That will be thoroughly dissected and
critiqued too. I’ve read it once. I don’t like sour milk! Send me another
copy. I do have a similar work by a man out of Lawton, O.K. “OLD WIVES
FABLES!” – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
I’ve
enclosed the article (1 Cor. 12:13); YOU NEED NOT RESPOND.
–Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
5.A. I
did “force a point.” It’s in the quote - 5. There’s no unsaved members in
Christ’s spiritual body. “Pre- Pentecost Church members?” Did something
happen to them at Pentecost, Herb? Yes it did. Five things. Guess? As far
as my “ecumenical church” goes, one of the greatest soul-winners in
Church history was a “lose your salvationist.” - John Wesley. Your “local
church only” contained Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King Jr., Rockefeller,
and Harry Truman. How about that? Jerry Falwell? Franklin Godsee? If
Swaggert and Baker are saved, then there they are. That’s all I can say.
Baby sprinkling Luther did more for God than you have. He didn’t waste
his time and ministry writing debatable articles in various Fundamental
newspapers, leaving his address for all, and then play innocent when
someone writes. Are you “purer than that?” – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Yes,
as a matter of fact, I am purer than that. I didn’t put my address in
Fundamental papers and encourage people to write me. That is your
slander. The editor is the one, who did that on his own. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
6. A.
Regarding your supposed proof-text in 1 Tim. 3:12, obviously you forgot
to read verse 11 - “their WIVES.” Anyway if you want to make the deacons
all married to same women, go ahead. Other than that, it is a stupid
excuse [perhaps because it was a stupid objection to begin with – Herb
Evans ]. Find in Eph.5 where it says “Husbands love your wife? What’s the
matter, Son [again, using commentary talk, since I am old enough to be
his father – Herb Evans], having a hard time? “Carrying language use too
far.” Sure. Christ only has one church. This one church will be preserved
a glorious church (Eph 5) and even will give Christ glory, WORLD WITHOUT
END (Direct reference to Rev. 21-22). Spirit baptism puts you into
Christ’s Spiritual body, which is exactly why we can suffer and rejoice
with its members (I Cor. 12:26). Are you telling me you can’t do that
with a member of another local assembly or just a Christian friend?
Speaking of your earlier reference in Cal. 6:1, this certainly applies
with Gal. 6:10 right in the context (HOUSEHOLD). – Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
No
problem ol’ boy; I wasn’t looking for a mismatch of a plural and a
singular in Ephesians 5; you were. I found one in 1 Tim 3:12. You were
the one that complained about a plural/singular mismatch and invented the
RULE that it was a no-no. So, don’t find fault with me; find fault with
Paul or your own man made up rule. The Holy Spirit does not baptize, and
a Holy spirit Baptizer or a Holy Spirit baptism does not occur anywhere
in the New Testament. Did you feel, see, hear, or sense it when you were
so baptized? I sure didn’t. But the folks in Acts 2 did, ask any
Charismatic. When was the last time that you suffered and rejoiced with
your unknown, invisible church members in China and India and in Heaven?
There are many things that I can do with non-local church members or even
unsaved people, for that matter, but that is not the issue. I cannot do
anything with invisible folks. Still, do you communicate with your fellow
members in heaven? <br><br>
For
some reason, like a Campbellite with water, every time you see the word
“spiritual” and “church” and “body,” you imagine some invisible, ethereal
entity. The Book of Galatians is written to the CHURCHES (plural-Gal.
1:2). Still, the stretch and exaggerations are with you. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
Christ
and his body are one spirit (now). The husband and wife have a physical
relationship. Christ and his Church now have a spiritual relationship (1
Cor. 6:17) again. Where did you get that annoying unbiblical word,
MYSTICIZE! Eph. 5:32 sums up Eph. 5:30-31. The mystery is that Christ is
one with his body being “50,000,000,000” light years up (Physically), and
this pictured by Adam and Eve. Adam gave his body to get his bride (Gen.
2), so did Christ (Eph. 5). We’ll have a flesh and bone body just like
Christ’s, at the rapture (Gen. 5:2). – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
It is
too bad that the local church does not have a “spiritual” relationship
with Christ. But then our physical bodies are merely members of Christ (1
Cor. 6:15). Well, I got the word in the same place that you got that
unbiblical word “organic.” In my case, “mysticize” is the only way to
identify your unbiblical theories and invisible entities, the ones that
you make up. Now, you fling out many proof texts without any rationale’
or explanation attached to them, and you say many things just to give an
answer, pat answers mostly, talking points. Adam sinned and Christ did
not, another irrelevant, Jeffrey comparison flung to the wind. Are we
going to be male and female at the rapture (Gen. 5:2)? It seems that you
do not know what a biblical mystery is. Try mysticizing or
mysteriousizing some of the other Bible mysteries as you have this one. –
Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
A
person baptized by the Spirit is found in Eph. 4:5; Rom. 6; Col. 2; Acts
1:5 (Chew on this one a while - The proof’s in the pudding); Gal. 3:27;
John 17:21; Matt. 20:23, Matt. 3 - Notice John wanted this baptism Jesus
had to give. It wasn’t just power. John came in the Spirit and power of
Elijah (Luke 1). Taking I Cor. 12:13 is just the same as taking II Tim.
3:16 away (One of a kind), as II Tim. 2:15; I Tim. 6:20; 6:10; Also see
Acts 10:43-47; 11:15-16. Also see Rom. 7:14 - That’s a good one for you.
– Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
The
Holy Spirit never baptizes even once in the N.T. You are operating under
a false premise and then arguing in a circle. Jesus is the BAPTIZER not
the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11); the Holy Spirit is the ELEMENT. You are
using an unscriptural term/function. I’ve chewed on your church and body
references a while and most of them unquestionably tasted local church,
the exception being your irrelevant references. Romans 7:4. Is the
crucified body of our Lord, Pal. Not your invention, a mystical,
invisible, universal body. – Herb Evans <br><br>
<br><br>
7. B.
is easy. Ephesus is the locality of the body in Ephesus. [What not
heaven? –Herb Evans]. Still “the church of Cod” was purchased with God’s
blood (matching Eph. 5), which is a reference to the body of Christ.
Christ died for his body. If Christ died for each local church, you would
have to say Christ died for the churches (my original point) Christ died
for the church, no matter where it is located. The church at Ephesus had
more than one locality. What about Corinth? (I Cor. 14:34). –Jeffrey
Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
No, I
do not have to say anything that you say. Who died and left you boss? If
you are saying that it means local churches only, when in the plural form
is used but is subject to interpretation, when a singular form is used,
you are wresting the scriptures. Of course, you are the one that we must
allow to interpret which church is meant by such passages. You have yet
to inform us of the mechanics for interpreting them other than capricious
arbitrary mechanics. The following occurrences of the singular form of
the word “church, which is local, dispelling such a false notion: Matt.
18:17; Acts 8:1, 11:22, 26; 13:1; 14:23, 27; 15:22; 18:22; Rom. 16:1,5; 1
Cor. 1:2; 4:17; 6:4; 11:18; 12:28; 14:23, and on and on. The churches of
1 Cor. 14:34 have nothing to do with Acts 20:28, which refers to each
local church and the elders that were present. Each local church was
purchased by His blood, a small task if Christ died for the world and
also purchased the O.T. “congregation” (Ps. 74:2). – Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
[“COULD they feed your church in the sky?”– Jeff quotes Herb Evans].
Don’t have to. They’re with the “Sheperd (sic) and Bishop of your souls”
(1 Pet. 2:25). – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Well,
here is an unexpected admission. The saved ones down here are not up
there in the sky with the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls, as you have
been contending. That is what I have been trying to tell you. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
8. A.
Yes, but in Eph. 1:1 he’s addressing them just like an individual
Christian. In Col. 1 you find a similar salutation with “the church,
which is his body” mentioned right in the same chapter. In your article
you said the church of Gal. 1:13 was “the local church of Jerusalem.”
Make up your mind. Acts 8:1 - You forget that the church of Jerusalem
contained all the members of the body because they were located together
at the time. As for Acts 9:31 you missed it. They rested from the
persecution (Gal. 1:13) when they heard Paul got saved. That’s what you
need to Compare, dodo! Ha Ha - A direct contextual reference to Gal 1:13.
Sure all my proof texts are in your favor. <br><br>
In
your own mind. “You’re a legend in your own mind.” Delusions of
gradeur”(sic). (There’s a psychological phenomena (sic) for you). As for
my “abilities”, see Rom. 12:3; Gal. 6:3, and II Tim. 2:15. “Surely the
Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants
the prophets.” Amos 3:7 (See Rev. 19:10). – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Hold
on, while I take off my shoes again. I didn’t realize that you were such
a special servant and prophet, which the rest of us are not. You must
certainly have been revealed some secret things, so secret that no one
else knows about them or even has heard about them, for that matter. You
really think lot of yourself. --DoDo Herb Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
You
are not very impressive at all. You fell flat on your face,
biblically. Come on down south and let us teach you some Bible,
boy! – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
True,
I am not trying to impress you as you are me. Well, like the mystical
baptism, I did not realize it or feel it, when I fell flat on my face.
That is not very impressive, I agree. Still, I thought I was supposed to
be taught by your letter. What happened? Did you see, hear, feel it. Is
there something magical or better yet mysterious about the south? And I
am a Caucasian. – Herb Evans <br><br>
I
still don’t think you’re ready for the meat. [Probably not, I didn’t get
any this trip. – Herb Evans]. If you don’t have anything good, quit
wasting my time. I’m ready for 1 Cor. 12. and Matt. 16. The ball is in
your court. Most of your “answers” were reverse questions. Although
stupid, I got ‘em. Have a nice day. – Jeffrey Nachimson<br><br>
<br><br>
Okay,
I will quit wasting your time, although it was your nickel. Enclosed is
the 1 Cor. 12:13 article. The church in Matt. 16 is the same kind of
church as is in Matthew 18 and Rev. 1-3. Since neither Pentecost or the
crucifixion occurred yet, I guess that you cannot claim it. The word is
used by Jesus 22 times anyway, and if you were correct about Matt. 16:16,
and you are not, it would be 21 to 1. Not very good odds. – Herb
Evans<br><br>
<br><br>
IN
CHRIST (Spiritually Baptized) JEFF NACHIMSON<br><br>
<br><br>
What
does it feel like? Did you get the warm fuzzies? Or did you speak in
tongues? <br><br>
<br><br>
IN
CHRIST (water baptized) Herb Evans<br><br>
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