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Canada - Money: Canada's public and private pension plans....	sand-@wwdb.org
	Jun 01, 2003 12:37 PDT

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Are RRSP's and Private Pension Plans the panacea they are
made out to be?

I have long been an advocate that RRSP's are not the end all
and be all of investments to hedge retirement plans.
Read it and weep!

Sandra Gibbs

-----Original Message-----
From: Truthseeker
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:16 PM

If you have this beleif that you will have a pension of any
kind when you retire, I will pray that you do, because even
now, people are losing the nest egg they were told by the
same parties who invented RRSPs and who say, PAY YOUR TAXES.
The money does not belong to you, nor does the funds in an
RRSP, therefore it can be taken back by the owner of it at
any moment. Are you going to risk retirement by using their
money now?

Im telling you folks, we must cease empowering the money
changers by ceasing use of their dirt worthless paper or
they will put all money users into receivership by design.
PAPER IS NOT HUMAN. PAPER IS DEBT.
PAPER IS ABSOLUTLEY WORTHLESS FOR PEOPLE. PAPER PAPER PAPER,
WHAT THE
HECK DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH NATURAL LIFE???????????????????

Sooner or later there will have to be a refusal to accept
paper, the sooner we do, the sooner the owners of it, are
not empowered.
THERE IS NO MONEY.
THE CASH ISNT YOURS.
IT MAY BE IN YOUR POCKET.
MY TV COULD BE LOCATED IN YOUR HOUSE, WHICH DOESNT MAKE IT
YOUR TV.

My 2 cents. VIC.

------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

ELIZABETH CHURCH From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Toronto - Canada's public and private pension plans are
facing a effective funding shortfall of $225-billion - an
amount roughly equal to 20 per cent of the nation's gross
domestic product - new estimates compiled by three major
benefit consulting firms show.

Closing that funding gap will require billions of additional
dollars from plan sponsors and perhaps employees, the
research warns. It puts the extra funding demands
at 2 per cent of GDP annually over the next 15 years,
provided there are no further gains or losses.

That demand for cash will surely put a strain on some
businesses, pension experts warned yesterday. Some plans may
collapse quite publicly, they said, and others may see
sponsoring employers try to quietly exit traditional defined
benefit plans to contain their costs. "Plans will be
terminated. That's going to make the press," Michel
St-Germain of Mercer Human Resource Consulting told a
conference of pension managers yesterday. "There is going to
be a loss of confidence. Regulators will be put in a tough
spot."

Mr. St-Germain said companies may respond by asking
employees to contribute to the deficit, by reducing early
retirement subsidies or temporarily halting the accrual of
pension benefits.

Regulators and lawmakers, he said, could respond with
tighter rules on investments or more frequent valuations.

That is happening at the federal level, where this week Nick
Le Pan, Superintendent of Financial Institutions, announced
that his agency was increasing valuations and becoming "more
activist and interventionist."

The findings released at yesterday's conference are based on
the client information gathered from three consulting
firms - Mercer, Towers Perrin and Watson Wyatt.

The rival firms worked together to evaluate the funded
status at the end of last year of plans in their sample,
which they estimate represents about half of the funded
Canadian pension system. The study included information from
1,040 pension plans, 94 of them in the public sector. In
total they had $275-billion of assets under
management.

Their research found that, in general, plans in their study
were about 85 per cent funded, meaning that their assets
cover about 85 per cent of their pension obligations. The
most severe difficulties are likely to arise in firms that
offer pension benefits based on average career pay or a flat
rate linked to years of service. That's because companies
with these plans tend to be in traditional industries with
unionized work forces that usually upgrade benefits in
negotiations. They also
commonly offer early retirement subsidies.

The 359 plans in this group in the study had $23.2 billion
in pension assets but needed close to $20 billion more to
fully fund their plans.

Steve Bonnar of Towers Perrin - who came up with the
$225-billion shortfall estimate - said no matter what the
sector, sponsors should be expecting to contribute
"meaningful amounts" to their pension plans unless returns
rebound to the levels of the late 1990s.

Ian Markham of Watson Wyatt said demand on cash to solve the
funding problems of pension plans could create other
difficulties by redirecting resources away from companies'
core businesses.

"If a ton of money is sucked into the pension system it is
going to create a crisis in another way," he warned.

If regulators demand companies pour money into pensions, he
said, it could cause a crisis as companies struggle with
less cash for development and expansion.

Malcolm Hamilton of Mercer predicted that ultimately the
struggle could end with firms gradually pulling the plug on
defined benefit plans. (These are plans where pension
levels are guaranteed based on salary and years of service.)

Funding a secure pension obligation with risky equity
investments has always been a dubious concept, he argued.
The flaws in the system, he said, have just been hidden in
the past 20 years by economic prosperity.

Now that problems with pension accounting and corporate
disclosure have been revealed because of falling returns, he
said, they must be corrected or defined benefit plans will
become a thing of the past.

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<DIV>Are
RRSP's and Private Pension Plans the panacea they are made out to
be?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have
long been an advocate that RRSP's are not the end all and be all of investments
to hedge retirement plans.</DIV>
<DIV>Read
it and weep!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sandra
Gibbs</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Truthseeker Sent:
Monday, May 26, 2003 8:16 PM </DIV>
<DIV>If you have
this beleif that you will have a pension of any kind when you retire, I will pray that you do, because
even now, people are losing the nest egg they were told by
the same parties who invented RRSPs and who say, PAY YOUR TAXES. The money
does not belong to you, nor does the funds in an RRSP, therefore it can
be taken back by the owner of it at any moment. Are you going to risk
retirement by using their money now? Im telling you folks, we
must cease empowering the money changers by ceasing use of their dirt
worthless paper or they will put all money users into receivership by
design. PAPER IS NOT HUMAN. PAPER IS DEBT. PAPER IS ABSOLUTLEY WORTHLESS
FOR PEOPLE. PAPER PAPER PAPER, WHAT THE HECK DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH NATURAL
LIFE??????????????????? Sooner or later there will have to be a refusal
to accept paper, the sooner we do, the sooner the owners of it,
are not empowered. THERE IS NO MONEY. THE CASH ISNT YOURS. IT
MAY BE IN YOUR POCKET. MY TV COULD BE LOCATED IN YOUR HOUSE, WHICH
DOESNT MAKE IT YOUR TV. My 2 cents. VIC. 
<HR>
 ELIZABETH CHURCH From Saturday's Globe and Mail Toronto - Canada's
public and private pension plans are facing a
effective funding shortfall of $225-billion - an amount roughly
equal
to 20 per cent of the nation's gross domestic product - new
estimates compiled by three major benefit consulting firms
show. Closing that funding gap will require billions of additional
dollars
from plan sponsors and perhaps employees, the research
warns. It puts the extra funding demands at 2 per cent of GDP
annually over the next 15 years, provided there are no further
gains or losses. That demand for cash will surely put a strain on some
businesses,
pension experts warned yesterday. Some plans may collapse
quite
publicly, they said, and others may see sponsoring employers try
to
quietly exit traditional defined benefit plans to contain their
costs. "Plans will be terminated. That's going to make the
press," Michel St-Germain of Mercer Human Resource Consulting told a
conference of pension managers yesterday. "There is going to be a loss
of confidence. Regulators will be put in a
tough spot." Mr. St-Germain said companies may respond by asking
employees to contribute to the deficit, by reducing early retirement
subsidies or temporarily halting the accrual of pension
benefits. Regulators and lawmakers, he said, could respond with tighter
rules on
investments or more frequent valuations. That is happening
at the federal level, where this week Nick Le Pan,
Superintendent of Financial Institutions, announced that his
agency
was increasing valuations and becoming "more activist
and interventionist." The findings released at yesterday's
conference are based on the client information gathered from three
consulting firms - Mercer, Towers Perrin and Watson
Wyatt. The rival firms worked together to evaluate the funded status at the end of last year of
plans in their sample, which they
estimate represents about half of the funded Canadian pension system. The study included information from 1,040
pension plans, 94 of them in the public sector. In total they had
$275-billion of assets under management. Their research found that, in
general, plans in their study were about 85 per cent funded, meaning
that their assets cover about 85 per cent of
their pension obligations. The most severe difficulties are likely to
arise in firms that offer pension benefits based on average career pay or a flat rate linked to years of
service. That's because companies with
these plans tend to be in traditional industries with unionized work forces that usually upgrade benefits
in negotiations. They also commonly offer early retirement
subsidies. The 359 plans in this group in the study had $23.2 billion in pension assets but needed close to $20
billion more to fully fund their plans. Steve Bonnar
of Towers Perrin - who came up with the $225-billion shortfall
estimate - said no matter what the sector, sponsors should be expecting
to contribute "meaningful amounts" to their pension plans unless
returns rebound to the levels of the late 1990s. Ian Markham of
Watson Wyatt said demand on cash to solve the funding problems
of pension plans could create other difficulties by redirecting
resources away from companies' core businesses. "If a ton
of money is sucked into the pension system it is going to create a
crisis in another way," he warned. If regulators demand companies pour
money into pensions, he said, it could cause a crisis as
companies struggle with less cash for development and
expansion. Malcolm Hamilton of Mercer predicted that ultimately the struggle could end with firms gradually pulling
the plug on defined benefit plans. (These are plans where pension
levels are guaranteed based on salary and years of
service.) Funding a secure pension obligation with risky
equity investments has always been a dubious concept, he argued.
The flaws in the system, he said, have just been hidden in the
past 20 years by economic prosperity. Now that problems with
pension accounting and corporate disclosure have been revealed
because of falling returns, he said, they must be corrected or defined
benefit plans will become a thing of the
past. </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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