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1000 Years in Hell - Critique Of Critique - 6
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John Henry
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Oct 08, 2004 23:09 PDT
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HERB EVANS CRITIQUES HERETIC JOEY FAUST'S CRITIQUE
By Herb Evans
E-mail: HerbE-@juno.com
48. Herb writes: "Joey's second mistake is to think that to ATTAIN UNTO the
resurrection means the same thing as to ATTAIN the resurrection. Joey
interprets 'ATTAIN' in the sense of Paul must 'ACQUIRE' his special non
carnal resurrection by some human effort such as some kind of the ascetic
suffering, rather than to ARRIVE or REACH that resurrection (the correct
meaning)."
Now Herb is venturing out a little deeper. Notice how he must first create
a straw man in order to build up his hypothesis. He mocks what he calls
"ascetic suffering." But there is nothing in the Bible or my book that says
anything about being a monk or a hermit! The Bible teaches us to live
godly, and preach the Word. When we do this faithfully, the suffering
(against the flesh, the Devil, and the world) will occur naturally. Herb,
because he will not believe or accept anything other than what he has known
and preached for years, must do anything he can to escape Philippians 3:11.
He tells us that "attain unto" means "arrive or reach." Yet, in an AMAZING
display of contorted ducking and twisting, Herb then implies that this
"reaching" is WITHOUT EFFORT on Paul's part! Webster's 1828 dictionary
defines "attain" in the following manner:
"1. To reach; to come to or arrive at, by motion, bodily exertion, or
efforts towards a place or object." - Joey Faust
Implies? Implies? Where does Herb imply that? Obviously, since Paul
buffeted his body, the reaching is not without effort in that Paul wanted
to attain UNTO A BETTER resurrection in the best possible shape. But it
does not teach that the resurrection itself is acquired by such efforts.
No, Herb was not implying that; that is another of your straw man, Joey.
Herb teaches to struggle against the world, the flesh, and the devil, and
heretics for a BETTER resurrection (Heb. 11:35)not continuous eternal
life. -- Herb Evans
If words mean anything, the words mean that Paul is doing EVERYTHING HE CAN
to walk by the Spirit and FIGHT for this resurrection!: -- Joey Faust
That is Joey spin. Paul was not fighting to get the resurrection; he was
fighting to reach the resurrection in good shape, a BETTER resurrection, if
you please (Heb. 11:35). --Herb Evans
Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,
and the fellowship of his SUFFERINGS, being made conformable unto his
death; 11 IF BY ANY MEANS I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
I confess that I do not know what the phrase "if by any means" (coming
right after Paul's testimony that he wants to suffer with Christ) can MEAN
if it does not clearly and simply state that Paul is doing everything he
can to "attain unto" the resurrection! A little "comparing Scripture with
Scripture.”
Acts 27:12 And because the haven was not commodious to winter in, the more
part advised to depart thence also, IF BY ANY MEANS they MIGHT ATTAIN TO
Phenice, and there to winter; which is an haven of Crete, and lieth toward
the south west and north west.
They did not reach Phenice. They did not experience Phenice. They did not
land in Phenice. They did not attain unto Phenice. They did not have part
IN Phenice. They did not touch Phenice. They did not enter Phenice. They
were CASTAWAYS. They were SHIPWRECKED (see 1 Timothy 1:19). It therefore
follows that Paul labored that "if by any means" he might "attain unto" the
RESURRECTION. This certainly means that he labored so he could EXPERIENCE
the resurrection and have part in it. -- Joey Faust
Simply, the best made plans of mice and men not to reach Phenice, so does
Joey compares reaching Phenice with the resurrection? Therefore, in Joey’s
syllogistic boondoggle, Paul may not really attain or experience or have
part in the first resurrection, if he did not comply with Joey’s criteria.
Can Joey mean that the carnal will NEVER attain the resurrection? Even at
the GWTJ? Or could it mean that the carnal and the non carnal saints will
attain the resurrection by ANY MEANS? Still, attaining TO Phenice is not
the same as attaining UNTO the resurrection. Nice try! -- Herb Evans
49. Herb writes: "Again, Paul is looking forward to the end of his RACE as
he pressed toward the finish line or MARK (Phil. 3:14) in which the PRIZES,
in these verses, are the MASTERY and the HIGH calling of God in Christ
Jesus but which are not the resurrection nor the kingdom."
Here Herb simply throws words around to make it look as if he is expounding
Scripture! He tells us that the MARK is the PRIZE and the Prize is the
MASTERY. But these are all PICTURES. What do these things represent [now,
Joey delves into the figurative]? The prize is indeed said to be the HIGH
CALLING (Philippians 3:14). But what is the HIGH CALLING? What is it a
calling to? It is obviously [not to us] the RESURRECTION mentioned in 3:11.
It is a calling unto a life of faithfulness in Jesus which will be rewarded
by a glorious resurrection into the Millennial Kingdom:
1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would WALK WORTHY of God, who hath CALLED YOU
unto his KINGDOM and glory.
2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of
God, that ye may be COUNTED WORTHY of the KINGDOM of God, for which ye also
SUFFER: [2 Timothy 2:12] -- Joey Faust
Notice how Joey marries two verse from two different books to arrive at his
corrupted thinking. Joey Faust makes the commands and instructions of
scripture to be “conditions” in order not to be killed at the JSOC or not
to be thrown in the lake of fire. None of us dirty sinners is worthy of
anything. Still, we certainly can and should walk worthy of our calling,
but Joey’s second proof text is talking about being COUNTED WORTHY, due to
their suffering and tribulation. But this is a long way to a condition for
getting to the kingdom and escaping the lake of fire. Unfortunately, all of
us do many unworthy things, including Joey. It is called sin. --Herb Evans
50. Herb writes: "For Faust's information, believers have been translated
into the kingdom of His dear Son (Col. 1:13) for over nineteen centuries."
Govett maintains that there are two Kingdoms. There is a present, spiritual
Kingdom made up of all saints, entered by faith alone. And then there is
the future Millennial Kingdom entered through faith and works. There is
much to commend this view. Others, such as G.N.H. Peters, suggested that
verses such as these are simply statements of what God has already
accomplished for believers (see Romans 4:17). Statements such as these are
not necessarily without conditions. As we have seen, the Israelites were
already given the promised land. But most in that generation were castaway
and overthrown in the wilderness. Even Moses was not permitted to cross
over. Jesus had already, in one technical sense, given the Philadelphian
church a crown. Yet, they were told to be sure not to lose it (Revelation
3:11). I list both of these possibilities in my book in a whole chapter
devoted to the Kingdom. Herb does not attempt to answer or argue against
either view. He probably did not even read the chapter where these answers
concerning Colossians 1:13, and other passages, are stated. -- Joey Faust
Herb Evans reads what he needs to read in order to brand Joey Faust a
heretic. Who cares what former Anglican Govett or Peters said? Or who needs
Govett to tell us that there are 2 kingdom phrases? And we certainly do not
need this “faith plus works” scenario from anyone, including the overcomer
cult and/or hyper dispensationalists. Herb still will not allow Joey to
change the subject on us. The subject is Joey’s heresy of believers in the
lake of fire. This spiritual kingdom shall culminate in a physical
millennial kingdom. -- Herb Evans.
51. Herb writes: "The only requirements for seeing and entering this
kingdom is being born-again (John 3:3-5)..."
Here Herb ASSUMES that the Kingdom in John 3 is the Millennium. Secondly,
assuming it is the Millennium, Herb then assumes that because a requirement
is listed in one passage, that such means it is the ONLY requirement! One
verse tells us that we must please God to have our prayers answered.
Another verse tells us that if a righteous man prays fervently, it will
avail much. Another verse tells us that if we ask amiss our prayers will be
hindered. It is therefore reckless to assume that because Jesus says that
being born again is "a" requirement for Millennial entrance, that such
means it is the ONLY requirement. Furthermore, men such as Govett (whom
Spurgeon said wrote the best BAPTIST commentary on John's Gospel he had
ever read), and J.R. Graves, believed that the WATER in John 3 means water
baptism. They both abhorred baptismal regeneration (Govett left the Church
of England and became a Baptist over the issue). But it is worthy of
consideration that TWO requirements are listed in John 3 for entering the
Millennium. First, one must be born again by the Spirit, and secondly, one
must be baptized (representing the first step in a life of confession and
discipleship). Whether or not this is true does nothing to my position. --
Joey Faust
Joey displays his endorsement of Govett’s sloppy exegesis of John 3; I’m
not a disciple of his. The water is anything but water baptism. Now, we
have more info on Joey, when he lends credibility to Govett’s view that
water baptism is required for entering the kingdom of God, which cannot
even be seen by the non-born again. Folks must be translated into the
kingdom of God before anything else takes place. That spiritual Kingdom of
God culminates in the physical kingdom of God or millennial kingdom. One
need only run references on the kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven to see
this. -- Herb Evans
It only shows that Herb's "grab and run" habit of dealing with Scriptures
is presumptuous. My book does not deny that there are a few verses that
must be answered. I do answer them all, in detail. It is the same with any
truth. But when one compares the verses my position must answer, with the
scores and scores of verses my opponents must answer, it should be clear
that my opponents are on the wrong side of Scripture. They do have
untrained emotion on their side (who at first DESIRES accountability?). But
my position has Scripture on its side. -- Joey Faust
This arrogant heretic has a wonderful view of himself and his final
authority book. Joey's book does not answer or resolve the issue of
believers burning in a Baptist purgatory. Nor does it answer why believers
cannot rely on the precious promises of eternal life that are given to
them. Joey is saying I am right and all you emotional, Independent,
fundamental, Independent Baptists and even your song books have been wrong
on these things for all these years. That is clearly a heretic’s
pontification. -- Herb Evans
52. Herb writes: "2 Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil
work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for
ever and ever. Amen."
This verse simply means that if Paul's body is thrown to the lions, or if
he must be beheaded in prison, that the Lord will INSURE that he will be
raised again. Paul has been living for Jesus and fighting the good fight.
He is about to die a martyr's death. He has confidence, on the basis of 2
Timothy 2:12, that he will be raised to reign with Jesus:
2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have
kept the faith:
Every Christian who has labored and suffered for Jesus, at the end of his
course, may have the same expectation and confidence that Paul possessed
(especially when the executioner is about to appear at the door). -- Joey Faust
It is obvious that Joey Faust tries to invent a pat answer for every
passage that he wants to gainsay away from all Christians. First, he wants
us to think Paul does not have confidence that he will be
resurrected. Now, Joey allows Paul to have confidence in 2 Tim 4:18 that
he will be preserved unto the heavenly kingdom by copping out with the
executioner's sword, when Paul still had a WINTER to go in order (2 Tim.
4:21) to get excluded from the kingdom and get cast into the lake of fire.
What a convoluted mess Joey's doctrine is. -- Herb Evans
53. Herb writes: "Believers are automatically HEIRS according to PROMISE
and INHERIT the millennial kingdom by being Christ's and by being God's SON."
What does this prove? Esau was an HEIR:
Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God;
lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be
defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who
for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that
afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for
he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Furthermore, we maintain that the inheritance is TWO-FOLD, having a
Millennial and an eternal aspect. The eternal inheritance is through faith
alone. The Millennial inheritance is through faith and patience:
Hebrews 6:12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through
faith AND PATIENCE INHERIT the promises.
If a believer does not strive patiently against sin, the flesh and the
Devil, he will NOT gain the firstborn, Millennial inheritance: -- Joey Faust
What a crock! Esau willingly and knowingly forfeited and sold the
blessing--not the kingdom. Again Joey make conditions out of instructions.
Now, we must have patience in order to enter the kingdom. What fantasy and
misuse of scripture! -- Herb Evans
1 Peter 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but
contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should
INHERIT a blessing. -- Joey Faust
Joey cannot distinguish between a blessing and a kingdom. -- Herb Evans
Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and
not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the REWARD OF
THE INHERITANCE: for ye serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he that doeth wrong
shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of
persons. -- Joey Faust
Reward of the inheritance is wood, hay, stubble, and gold, silver, precious
stones. What is Joey’s problem? He is like a Campbellite who sees baptism
everywhere there is water. -- Herb Evans
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell YOU before, as I have also told YOU in time past, that
they which SO SUCH THINGS shall NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM of God.
What would be the reason for Paul continually reminding the saints that the
people which DO such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God, if it was
not his intention to use the fact as a WARNING against such conduct? Paul
not only wanted them to be reminded of this danger, but he also knew that
there would arise many people who would seek to deny the warning: -- Joey
Faust
It is a warning but a warning to who? What Joey fails to include here is
Gal. 5:19, 20, in which Paul lists those works of the FLESH, which also
includes HERESIES. Tough luck for heretic Faust. Paul contrasts these works
of the flesh with the crucified flesh and the fruits of the Spirit in
5:22-24 and walking in the Spirit. Context, Joey, Context. The believer's
flesh is DEAD, crucified with Christ. Such WERE some of you. -- Herb Evans
Ephesians 5:5 For this YE know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person,
nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom
of Christ [I thought Joey believed in the spiritual kingdom of Christ that
we are translated into] and of God. 6 LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU with vain
words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the
children of disobedience. 7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH THEM. --
Joey Faust
Man, Joey has a lot of folks in the lake of fire, i.e., enviers, foolish
talkers, jesters. I wonder how many folks are really going to make it in
Joey's scheme. We wonder why Joey Faust did not use 1 Cor. 6:9-10 for his
indictment of believers. But then we read there “BUT SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU:
BUT YE ARE WASHED, BUT YE ARE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE ARE JUSTIFIED” in 1 Cor.
6:11. We are no longer in those categories; that is why Joey's proof texts
say not to be partakers WITH THEM, the unwashed, who are so categorized.
Praise de Lawd! -- Herb Evans
54. Herb writes: "Joey Faust thinks that all of the saved N.T. saints will
be 'RAISED' (split rapturist language for the carnal raptured) but that the
carnal ones will not be glorified nor have immortal, incorruptible, NEW
bodies, for the Lord's FIERY breath must kill and burn them at the JSOC and
put them in the lake of fire (to satisfy Faust's insatiable, sadistic
desire for believers to suffer, die, and burn)."
First of all, being "raised from the dead" is not the same as being
"translated." The timing of the translation, and who is included in the
pre-trib translation has little to do with the doctrine of Millennial
Exclusion. The proof is in the fact that most of the earlier believers in
Millennial Exclusion were also split rapturists, yet Edwin Wilson (now
passed away), Arlen Chitwood, and Gary Whipple (more modern advocates of
Millennial Exclusion) believe in a total pre-trib rapture. --Joey Faust
Is that right, Mr. Faust? Raised from the dead as Christ was raised has
everything to do with it. For if both groups are caught up in different
kinds of bodies, you have a real problem. Either way, if both groups do
have or do not have resurrection bodies (on which Joey cannot seem to make
up his mind), Joey has a real problem, regardless of what some of his
millennial exclusionists teach. -- Herb Evans
Secondly, it is not my desire at all for believers to be punished by their
Lord. If this was my desire, I would not have spent six years researching
and writing the book. Herb does not know what is in my heart. And if he
believed the Lord's warning in Matthew 5:22, he would be much more careful
in his words. Is it "sadistic" to teach that the Lord may sometimes
chastise some saints with sickness or death in this time of the Lord's
patience and longsuffering (1 Corinthians 11)? If it is not, then why is it
"sadistic" to think that our Lord, who is a consuming fire, will chastise
some rebellious children with His fiery breath when He appears to JUDGE
them? Herb is doing the only thing he can do: appeal to the emotions of his
readers. But I have read scores of debates between Universalists (no
hellers) and Baptists. Each time, the Universalists are forced to argue in
the same way Herb argues against my view. It is the methodology of all who
are wrong or weak in their position. -- Joey Faust
Yawn! Burp! Herb Evans does not devote a whole book to earthly
chastisement, which might, if done, be called sadistic. You spent six years
for nothing. That has to hurt. -- Herb Evans
Furthermore, I only maintain that some Christians will be slain at the
Lord's coming and be banished to the underworld [hell-Herb Evans]. This is
what I mean by "mortal" (i.e., "subject to death," Web.1828). The exact
nature of the body is open to debate. Jesus is clear that the BODIES of
some of His disciples could be subject unto Hell (underworld): -- Joey Faust
Joey maintains much and proves little. So, is Joey saying that if it is a
new incorruptible body, it is subject to death? Does Joey realize that all
of Jesus disciples were not saved? Namely, Judas. --Herb Evans
Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what
ye hear in the ear, that PREACH ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not
them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather
fear him which is able to destroy [note the absence of your] BOTH SOUL AND
BODY in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them
shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it
from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should
perish, and not that thy WHOLE BODY should be cast into hell.
It would be interesting to hear how Herb, according to his prophetic views,
coupled with King James Onlyism, will get around these verses without
embracing my views! Herb believes that only CHRISTIANS are resurrected
BEFORE the Millennium. He maintains that ONLY unbelievers (false
professors, etc.) are raised at the Great White Throne (after the
Millennium). But Jesus warns His disciples that they could experience HELL
in their BODIES. But Revelation 20 says that HELL gives up the dead and the
bodies of unbelievers are then cast into the LAKE OF FIRE (not Hell): --
Joey Faust
Herb Evans does not have to get around anything, especially Jesus’
preaching instructions along with the message, which he gave to the
disciples (including Judas), whom he sent out, and Herb Evans does not have
to pluck out his eyes or cut off his members to avoid the above happening
to him. Perhaps, Joey does this? -- Herb Evans
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death
and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged
every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into
the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found
written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. -- Joey Faust
Ho hum! By this time, believers, both carnal and non carnal have been to
the JSOC and the marriage supper and are enjoying eternal life. These are
lost folks at the Great White Throne Judgment. Joey tends to get his time
frames mixed up. The two events (JSOC and GWTJ) are separated by 1000
years. -- Herb Evans
You can now watch Herb begin to sweat. He will do everything he can to try
to say the warning Jesus gave to His disciples in Matthew 5 was about the
LAKE OF FIRE. In other words, Herb will try to say that the HELL mentioned
in Revelation 20:13 is not the HELL Jesus mentions in Matthew 5. Herb is in
a greater mess since HELL means "under." A Lake of Fire is not properly a
HELL. It is not the PIT under the earth. But it gets worse for Herb. --
Joey Faust
Sweat? Herb Evans is having the time of his life, watching Joey twist and
turn. And certainly, Herb Evans will not sweat at Joey's prediction of what
Herb Evans will do. That is all HYPE. Whatever Herb believes about Gehenna
(what Joey is alluding to) or the lake of fire, Herb Evans does not believe
that it is in heaven or that it will be in heaven to await the carnal
believers as Joey believes. Herb has already done with Joey's passages all
that Herb is going to do. Still, there are flames in Hades as well. Moot
points, despite the verbal gymnastics. No, Herb will agree that the hell in
Matthew is the hell in this passage, despite Joey's prediction. -- Herb Evans
After he has tried to find a way to turn the warning of Jesus in Matthew 5
concerning HELL into a warning about the Lake of Fire [which Herb never
did], he must then deal with Mark 9:
Mark 9:43 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee
to enter into the KINGDOM OF GOD with one eye, than having TWO EYES to be
cast into HELL fire:
Here Jesus tells us that the Apostle John (9:38) must do what he can to
avoid sin in order to keep his body out of Hell. However, Jesus goes
further, and this time, tells us that John may go to Hell in body DURING
THE KINGDOM. Herb must now become an Amillennialist and try to say that the
KINGDOM in Mark 9 is not the MILLENNIUM. This is what happened to A.W.
Pink. Not many people realize that he had written a long treatise against
Millennial Exclusion, and then, during the debate, lost his mind and
realized he could only resist the truth of Millennial Exclusion on
AMILLENNIAL grounds! -- Joey Faust
Well, here we have some new Faust material. Some folks are going to enter
the millennial kingdom of God with one eye, if they do not pluck one of
them out. I wonder if Joey or his crew have done that, especially his
promoter, who joined a dating service before divorcing his wife and ran
around with her before the divorce. Huh?
John? John was told not to forbid them, who were casting out devils in
Christ's name. And then drops to "whosoever" in verse 41 (one reward group)
and "whosoever" in 42 (a lost group). Does Joey know what the word
"whosoever" means? Context, Joey, context! -- Herb Evans
Finally, Herb makes another mistake in his quote. I maintain that the
Lord's fiery breath is the same thing in principle as the Lake of Fire. It
LIGHTS the Lake of Fire which will later appear before His throne.
Therefore, unfaithful believers are not burned by the Lord's breath and
then placed into the Lake of Fire. They are burned by the Lord's breath and
then banished to the underworld of Hell. -- Joey Faust
Joey can maintain anything he wants; proving it is another matter. Then how
does the same thing light the other thing that is the same thing? Huh? It
is hard to plug up so many convoluted and contradictory holes. If they are
slain at the JSOC, how are they slain there? If it is the Lord’s breath
that slays them there, how and when are they then placed in the lake of
fire? How much time do they spend in the lake of fire before being banished
to the underworld hell, where there are also flames? Does Joey Faust read
the science fiction of Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov? For this stuff is
not in the scripture. Heretic Joey must have made it up. Joey plays down
hell to be the underworld, softening the fact that hell also has flames
like the lake of fire, for he feels like the reader has already to much to
bear, let alone a second burning of believers for the remainder of the 1000
years. We have your number, Mr. Faust. No believer is burned by the Lord’s
breath. Without scripture Joey has imagined all this and forced it into the
JSOC. -- Herb Evans
55. Herb writes: "All believers will have NEW glorified bodies. There are
NO mortal bodies at the JSOC."
What would it prove if believers had bodies that were NOT subject to
earthly death at the Judgment Seat? Would this mean that God's FIERY BREATH
could not burn them? -- Joey Faust
Yes, as a matter of fact, it does mean that. God does not burn glorified
bodies. And God’ BREATH, that is a fabrication and figment of Joey Faust's
imagination and science fiction. -- Herb Evans
Would this mean that GOD could not send them to Hell? Did not God already
cast down some ANGELS and lock them in Hell (2 Peter 2:4)? Do angels have
bodies like mortal men on earth? Therefore, even if we allowed that there
was some CHANGE in the body of EVERY Christian at the Judgment Seat, this
would no more mean that they were immune to God's chastisement, than angels
or the DEVIL himself, is immune to God's punishments!: -- Joey Faust
The angels were not redeemed or saved and did not have glorified bodies.
Only Jesus had a glorified body, and it was able to go through walls. It is
not a question of what God could or can do. It is a question of whether God
lies to us or breaks His word. God did not promise the devil or angels
eternal life apart from hell; He did promise us eternal life apart from
hell. -- Herb Evans
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in
marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. -- Joey Faust
There Joey goes again, with another irrelevant verse. -- Herb Evans
On the other hand, Herb assumes that the verses he quotes to attempt to
prove that every Christian will have an immortal body, are without any
conditions. But this fails to realize that all promises must be compared
and checked by other Scriptures. There are many verses that appear to teach
that there are no conditions in regard to answered prayer. But when we
examine the rest of Scripture, we find that there are qualifications. The
promises God gave the Israelites concerning the promised land do not
immediately appear to contain conditions. Yet, the generation to whom the
promises were given, were overthrown in the wilderness! The New Testament
repeatedly warns us about such historic realities: -- Joey Faust
Herb realizes that there are only two kinds of bodies available to us.
Mortal and immortal, unless Joey can give us a third from scripture. Joey's
desperate attempt, trying to gainsay God's promises, is readily apparent as
he tries to place CONDITIONS on everything. Joey is the best commentary on
what he believes. All one must do is drag the SHOCK THEOLOGY out of him
with which he -- Herb Evans
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be
IGNORANT, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed
through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the
sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the
same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed
them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well
pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things
were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as
they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is
written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou
bearest not the root, but the root thee. 20 Well; because of unbelief they
were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but
fear: 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which
fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his
goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Hebrews 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of
temptation in the wilderness: 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not
enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an
evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one
another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened
through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; -- Joey Faust
Joey Faust throughout this exchange has repeatedly posted examples of
Israel and verses on Christian living, as if we did not believe in living
moral and separated lives. Many times, Joey's verses allude to unbelief as
the above verse, and Joey somehow transfers the examples to people, who do
believe. Still, Joey cannot find one verse where God places a believer in
hell or the lake of fire. He hints and infers his way through these verses,
trying to make them apply to the carnal believer. Yet, Joey never tells us
where the line is between carnality and non carnality and how much of each
is required. It is the old Catholic ploy of “You’ll know when you get
there.” -- Herb Evans
My book deals with the verses Herb raises, in detail, and shows from the
context of the passages, that they have conditions. And again, even if this
point is ignored or assailed, the fact remains that a body which man and
earth cannot corrupt is in NO WAY a body which GOD HIMSELF cannot
temporarily destroy! Baptist preacher, Gary Whipple (who also teaches
Millennial Exclusion, etc.), maintains that all Christians will appear in a
REDEEMED, Adamic body (like before the fall), and that only those
Christians that are found worthy will then be given the GLORIFIED body. The
others will be banished until after the Millennium. There is much to
commend this view. --Joey Faust
Your book, your book! Your book is not the authority nor does your book
confront the issues that I put forward in MY own words. It is obvious that
you read too many other people's books. Who cares what Whipple teaches
without any scripture to back him up, and who cares about a book that
cannot prove that Christian believers are either thrown into hell or into
the lake of fire? -- Herb Evans
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