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Re: How Bizarre, How Bizarre, How Bizarre  Tim Segulin
 Jun 05, 2005 19:00 PDT 

Hi Woodrow

woodrow anselen wrote:

 Hello Everyone:

Those of you also on the WWII_Luftwaffe list certainly must have seen
Tim's diatribe against me. While I do not wish to deny him the right
to express such things, I do take umbrage at his censoring me so I
cannot respond. As such, it may interest you to know that he...well
some one has removed me from that list. Too bad. It was fun while it
lasted.

It was one of the other list owners who disabled your account. Believe
it or not I actually councilled against doing that immediately. Somehow
your account was re-enabled. I did not censor you nor return you.

This message is coming form your own address. Noboy appears to be
forwarding it.

 

     Gentlepersons...
      
     Tim once again puts on public display his complete inability to
     understand historical events in their proper context. The posting
     I was responding to was in fact in response to a question some one
     previously had asked as to why Luftwaffe personell would paint a
     picture of an American Indian on their aircraft. Tim himself, in
     an another of the many ironic twists which seem to dot his
     life, expressed his own perplexity at this very habit. My post
     was a reasoned account detailing how the popular myth of the
     "Noble Savage" was in fact just that, a myth.

      
     In what way may I ask was it racist? In no way do I seek to
     denigrate the individuals who comprised the various Indian
     nations, rather I merely point out that as an object of military
     admiration (such as one might expect from a warlike 'mascot'
     painted on the side of a man-o-war) they were found wanting.
So "Yes, it does make you wonder why they would paint a picture of these
losers on their airplane." is in no way derogatory?

      The 'make believe' so often promoted by individuals seeking to
     rewrite history has also sought to make the American Indian into
     some kind of Super Man which, clearly, he was not. Here is a news
     flash for unfortunates who share Tim's perverted view of the
     world: There ARE no Super Men.
When did I ever claim there was? I never invoked the notion of the
Amrican Indian as "The Noble Savage".

      People are people all throughout the world; subject to the same
     human failings which will be found around the globe since before
     recorded history.
      
     The fact of the matter is that Indian tribes did engage in
     anihilating and 'racially purificating' warfare. They did
     actively practice slavery. They did indicriminantly slaughter
     wildlife in a manner far in excess of what was required. They did
     desecrate the land by over farming and failing to use crop
     rotation. All these are matters for the historical record. Now,
     did other peoples do the same? You bet. I challenge anyone to tell
     me in what culture, in what race and in what epoch human foibles
     and frailties have not come to the fore and resulted in human
     tradgedy.
      
     But here in lies the rub. In his hate blinded condemnation of
     anything American,
This assertion is utter rubbish.

      Tim makes the classic errors which we have all come to associate
     with his disjointed diatribes. He accurately accuses the United
     States of practicing slavery some one hundred fifty years ago,
     while conveniently omitting two crucial facts.
Neither changes the fact that these people were kidnapped and forced to
work as slaves ultimately in America.

 
      
     Finally, I must respond to Tim's racist motivated statements in
     which he perportedly seeks to know my mind and my heart and to
     ascribe his own villainous animosities to me.
No. All I propose is that we treat each other - and by extension their
homelands civilly, not using crude racist epithets like Kraut, Wop,
Greaser etc.

      To say that I consider ANYONE to be...what was the disgusting word
     he used? an untermesch is an insult I cannot let pass. Tim does
     not know (nor apparently care) of my work in
No I had no idea since neither you nor anyone else had told me about it.

It all sounds quite extrordinary, and since I had little way of
associating you with such humanitariansim from your posts, it must
impact how I see you now. I'm truly impressed, and maybe we should take
it up directly - if you can still bring yourself to do so. It sounds
genuinely fascinating and truly generous.

Unfortunately, it's of little relevence in a WW2 Luftwaffe group.

       
     This list deals with the Luftwaffe as it pertained to World War
     Two. As such, I believe it is imperative that a certain leeway be
     accomodated to touch upon other subjects which may at times, in
     only a very peripheral manner, be associated with the title.
You and I have both demonstrated in the past how this can be abused.

I did not invoke terms like Krauts, Wops, Greasers (and come to think of
it even once a Jew-boy) in this or any other public forum. I don't think
they're appropriate in such a place, nor were they somehow apparently
neccessary to make your point at the time they were used. They appeared
utterly gratuitous. Used perhaps for impact or as Tom feels, as humour?



Take care

Tim

--
Tim Segulin
Nova Scotia, Canada, Axis of Maple
	
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