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Fw: etni Digest V2 #10
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Ask Etni
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Jan 10, 2004 00:14 PST
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----- Original Message -----
From: "FreeLists Mailing List Manager" <ecar-@freelists.org>
To: "etni digest users" <"etni digestsubscribers"@freelists.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:10 AM
Subject: etni Digest V2 #10
etni Digest Fri, 09 Jan 2004 Volume: 02 Issue: 010
In This Issue:
[etni] Re: [FWD: composition rubric]
[etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
[etni] Re: etni Digest V2 #9
[etni] Teachers and the Irgun
[etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]]
[etni] Re: "register"
[etni] feeling intimidated
[etni] Re: [etni]failing 5 point...
[etni] Humorous flashback
[etni] Response
[etni] Made up words
[etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
[etni] [FWD: Re: composition rubric]
[etni] Re: [FWD: composition rubric]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bari Nirenberg" <nire-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: [FWD: composition rubric]
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:30:53 +0200
I would think that a composition that is completely off topic would not
receive any points (but I agree that that's not what it looks like from the
rubric).
I'm having a problem with the rubrics for the B and D modules. Both exams
say that no points are deducted for spelling errors on answers to unseens,
yet in both exams, spelling is included in the composition rubric (in
mechanics). Are 3-pointers actually going to be penalized for spelling
mistakes in their compositions?
Bari
| | -----Original Message-----
From: etni-b-@freelists.org
[mailto:etni-b-@freelists.org]On Behalf Of as-@etni.org
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 08:57
To: et-@freelists.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: composition rubric]
**** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: composition rubric
From: "cindy komet" <cin-@yakum.co.il>
Dear Etniers,
Has anyone else experienced this?
I've just completed checking a set of exams for one of my
classes. I used the rubric for the "G" module and I must say
that I was not pleased. I don't think that enough points are
given for content.
One of my native speakers has a HUGE problem with organization
and focusing on the question. Nevertheless, he has an
extraordinary vocabulary and absolutely no problems with grammar.
In addition, he has the "hakala" for ignoring spelling errors.
According to the rubric, he has earned 32/40 points (80%).
He wrote a beautiful collection of thoughts, however, he did not
answer the question. He wrote a great topic sentence and then
his mind "hopped on" several 'trains of thought' which took him
to places other than the topic of the question.
Rubric:
8 ·information is relevant to the topic·fluent expression·ideas
clearly stated·text is well organized·task is written mostly in
pupil's own words
8·correct use of varied and rich vocabulary·effective word/idiom
choice and usage·use of appropriate register
16·correct use of advanced language structures·few errors of
agreement, tense, word order, connectors, pronouns, prepositions
8·few errors of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, paragraphing
Does this mean that a pupil can write "The Gettysburg Address"
and get 32 points, even though he didn't answer the question?
(Yes, I know I have exaggerated.) I'd like to hear your thoughts
about this.
Thanks,
Cindy
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 05:37:39 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
| | -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: composition rubric]
From: "Yisrael and Batya Medad" <ybme-@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, January 09, 2004 1:02 am
To: cin-@yakum.co.il, as-@etni.org
appropriate register
I admit that I don't know all these new euphemisms. What's
"appropriate
register?"
If it means appropriate vocabulary, then if the composition's message
is
off target, no points for it.
Batya
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 14:58:15 +0200
From: Dena Livne <livn-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: etni Digest V2 #9
Dear Cindy,
We also are quite worried about the criteria for writing for G. I have to
say that on the one hand, I do think it is an improvement on the old 5/5
criteria. However, we totally agree with you that 8 for content is
problematic. I have even found it problematic for my 11th grade students
(heading for E, then F and G in 12).
In the past, there was the same problem, but the student could at least lose
half the points for writing totally off topic.
We are also worried about something else. In our 11th grade 5 pt class, we
have quite a few rather weak five point students. Some of these students
might have had a chance of passing the old five point bagrut. If one of the
unseens was more difficult, they might done better on the others. If they
didn't do well on one of the writing assignments, well maybe the second went
better etc. However, now we are not at all sure they will manage. While
they might do fine on module E (particularly with nothing taken off for
spelling!!), they might fail either G or F. As I understand that the
Summer Moed Bet has been cancelled, this basically means that the student
will finish 12th grade with nothing. Not five points and not four. This
hardly seems fair!
Are we all meant to start giving our kids the winter bagrut so that if they
fail they can take it again in the summer??? This whole system, with all
its different modules and magen grades etc. seems to be leading to far more
time spent on preparing students for exams and testing them than we did in
the past. It does worry us. Still, we plough ahead, with literature,
projects etc etc and hope for that someone knows what they're doing for we
barely have time to think!!
Have a good weekend.
Dena Livne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:13:13 +0200
From: golomb <gol-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Teachers and the Irgun
To Dan and all those concerned,
I was one of the organizers against the haphazard and irresponsible way the
NBA was thrust upon us.
A great number of teachers complained to the Irgun. Too few teachers are
willing to stand up and be counted because they are intimidated by the
inspectorate.
If you remember, an unseen literature passage was supposed to be part of the
new bagrut exam. Why did this quietly die, without a whimper? I'll tell
you why - the inspectorate flung this "nice sounding" test into the exam
before they had even thought about the practicalities. The same goes for
project work etc.
Grandiose ideas will not improve the standard of English in Israel.
Yes, the Irgun acted only because they were approached by a large number of
teachers and also because their professional body saw that the program had
not been properly tested before implementing it.
If you enjoy doing projects and honestly think (I don't) that they are
advantageous, there is nothing to stop you from doing them, and as many as
you choose to do.
However, there are many teachers (probably a majority), who don't believe in
or simply don't want to add projects to their already overfilled workload.
I only have words of praise for the Irgun.
As far as the on-going sanctions are concerned, they have been imposed to
protect our rights, which are whittling away. Only those who are totally at
peace with the implications of the new cuts, both in schools and to
teachers, can afford to keep quiet.
Nina
-----
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:44:54 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]]
| | -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
From: "litajack on ArkinNET" <lita-@arkinnet.com>
Date: Fri, January 09, 2004 7:11 am
To: as-@etni.org
Dear Batya,
This is for information NOT a criticism. Please don't
misunderstand me.
From the linguistic point of view, register is not a new term nor
is it
a euphemism. In terms of clarity, it's like using noun or adjective
instead
of "person, place or thing", or "describing" word. The one word
contains
it all. It means a way of speaking, or writing, easily recognisable
or
identifiable with a certain type; e.g. legal, medical, criminal world,
fashion, political, religious, etc. In the same way as when you pick
up a
book or article you can often identify the author from the way he has
written, when he uses an unsuitable "register", it doesn't come off as
authentic. We really use it all the time when we mimic others, and,
of
course, actors must use it when they play a part. You may just not
have
heard of the term used in this connection, but it isn't new.
I hope I've explained it clearly.
Lita Arkin
----- Original Message -----
From: <as-@etni.org>
To: <et-@freelists.org>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
****
| |
| | -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: composition rubric]
From: "Yisrael and Batya Medad" <ybme-@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, January 09, 2004 1:02 am
To: cin-@yakum.co.il, as-@etni.org
appropriate register
I admit that I don't know all these new euphemisms. What's
"appropriate
register?"
If it means appropriate vocabulary, then if the composition's
|
|
message
| | | | is
off target, no points for it.
Batya
|
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| | ##### Send queries and questions to: as-@etni.org #####
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:28:26 +0200
From: sarag <sar-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: "register"
" appropriate register" -
as far as I know, this is what is called "mishlav s'fati" in Hebrew.
As in - the level of the language. An article in a youth magazine, an
article in a newspaper, an article in a professional journal - would have
different registers. It's not just vocabulary, it's sentence formations and
other things.
My 10th grade wrote speeches last week. They had to decide who they were and
who the audience was.
One boy was an economic expert, speaking to the Knesset. (He had some
interesting ideas!!! Maybe we should send his speach to Bibi.). One was a
truck driver, speaking to a meeting of truck drivers. Most of them were
teenagers, telling groups of parents that their kids need firm boundaries,
but also lots of spending money and (very!) late curfews.
They had to use the appropriate register in each case.
sara
sara g in israel
sar-@netvision.net.il
----- Original Message -----
From: <as-@etni.org>
To: <et-@freelists.org>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
| | **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
| | -------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: composition rubric]
From: "Yisrael and Batya Medad" <ybme-@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, January 09, 2004 1:02 am
To: cin-@yakum.co.il, as-@etni.org
appropriate register
I admit that I don't know all these new euphemisms. What's
"appropriate
register?"
If it means appropriate vocabulary, then if the composition's message
is
off target, no points for it.
Batya
|
##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: et-@freelists.org
|
#####
| | ##### Send queries and questions to: as-@etni.org #####
|
------------------------------
From: "avi tsur" <tsur-@hotmail.com>
Subject: [etni] feeling intimidated
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:57:24 +0000
Dear Nina
As an inspector I read and take your messages very personally, maybe because
I am also human. As a person I am sure that there are people who feel
intimidated by my very presence because of the title that I proudly carry.
But I dare say that the vast majority KNOW and acknowledge the very opposite
and see/feel the real purpose of an inspectorate that works very hard to see
to the needs of the teachers. Please refrain from making any/all judgments
of issues that you are not qualified to make. You have not sat in on any
"pikuach" meetings, do not know why any decisions are made, do not have the
slightest notion of the constraints or pressures, etc. etc. etc...... I
think that your representation of the Irgun is important but please do draw
the line - you don't know everything.
As for projects - most of my schools are happily doing projects and are not
as bitter or negative as you and the few who are using ETNI to make your
point. I have found that only too often we seem to hear those who are
extreme in their thoughts and the majority just seem to be happy doing the
work.
Your work with and as part of the Union is very important but please also
try to be objective. Look around to what is happening in the Ministry of
Defence, Agriculture, ... and EDUCATION and maybe you will sound different.
Even the Inspectorate has to abide by decisions made by governing powers, if
we like it or not.
Shabbat Shalom
avi
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The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:20:14 +0200
From: sarag <sar-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: [etni]failing 5 point...
As far as I know, they don't have to pass all 3 modules. Each module is wort
1/3 of the final bagrut mark. (actually, isn't it 1/3 of 80%, because the
oral exam is 20%?).
Anyway, if, let's say, a kid gets 70 in E, 70 in F ind 50 in G, his mark for
the tests will be (50+70+70)/3, and he passes. (of course, each test has to
be avereged with its magen mark...).
I do think thay must TAKE all the modules, so a kid can't get 100 in the
first 2 module, and say that 200/3 = 67 is high enough for him, and stop
studying English.
shabat shalom -
sara g, "resident mathematician"
p.s. - are you sure moed "b" is cancelled? as far as I know, this hasn't
been officially stated.
sara g in israel
sar-@netvision.net.il
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dena Livne" <livn-@netvision.net.il>
.......
| | We are also worried about something else. In our 11th grade 5 pt class,
|
we
| | have quite a few rather weak five point students. Some of these students
might have had a chance of passing the old five point bagrut. If one of
|
the
| | unseens was more difficult, they might done better on the others. If they
didn't do well on one of the writing assignments, well maybe the second
|
went
| | better etc. However, now we are not at all sure they will manage. While
they might do fine on module E (particularly with nothing taken off for
spelling!!), they might fail either G or F. As I understand that the
Summer Moed Bet has been cancelled, this basically means that the student
will finish 12th grade with nothing. Not five points and not four. This
hardly seems fair!
|
......
------------------------------
From: "Gary Zone" <gary_-@hotmail.com>
Subject: [etni] Humorous flashback
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:17:33 +0000
TODAY'S Gray G R O A N:
Oldies But Goodies
Some of the artists from the 60's &70's are re-releasing their hits with new
lyrics to accommodate us. Good news for those missing those great old
tunes...
Herman's Hermits - "Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Walker"
The Bee Gees - "How Can You Mend A Broken Hip"
The Temptations - "Papa's Got A Kidney Stone"
Ringo Starr - "I Get By With A Little Help From Depends"
Marvin Gaye - "I Heard It Through The Grape Nuts"
Procol Harum - "A Whiter Shade Of Hair"
Johnny Nash - "I Can't See Clearly Now"
Leo Sayer - "You Make Me Feel Like Napping"
ABBA - "Denture Queen"
Paul Simon - "Fifty Ways To Lose Your Liver"
Roberta Flack - "The First Time I Ever Forgot Your Face"
Commodores - "Once, Twice, Three Times The Bathroom"
Rolling Stones - "You Can't Always Pee When You Want"
Bobby Darin - "Splish, Splash, I Was Havin' A Flash
TODAY'S QUOTE
"Half our life is spent trying to find something to do with the time we've
rushed through life trying to save."
--Will Rogers
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:02:42 +0200
From: golomb <gol-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Response
In response to Avi's message (which I found highly condescending and rather
insulting), my biggest complaint is that the inspectorate does not involve a
representative sample of teachers in decision making. After all, we
teachers are the ones who implement the decisions.
I am very much aware of the constraints placed on all departments by the
government. This is not my objection at all as far as English is concerned.
This is certainly not the English inspectorate's fault.
However teachers from both sides of the spectrum should be involved in
decision making and curriculum planning.
I am certainly not against projects as a whole. I use them myself when I
judge that a class can benefit from them. I am against being forced into
doing something, even if I don't deem it suitable for a certain class or
group.
As far as the Irgun is concerned, they only got involved in the NBA because
there was enough overt, and even more covert objections to the new program.
I certainly didn't act on my own.
------------------------------
From: "Adele Raemer" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Made up words
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:10:16 +0200
We could bring these into a (good) class, as examples, and after they guess
the definitions, have them make up their own! A way to work in suffixes and
prefixes, too! If they are too difficult, maybe we could think of our own.
Or, maybe just for you to read and enjoy!
Adele
Bozone: the substance surrounding stupid people, which stops bright ideas
from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of
breaking down in the near future.
Giraffiti: vandalism spray-painted -very, very high.
Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who
doesn't get it.
Glibido: all talk and no action.
Dopeler effect: the tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they
come at you rapidly.
Arachnoleptic fit: the frantic dance performed just after you've
accidentally walked through a spider web.
Ignoranus: a person who's both stupid and an asshole.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:55:56 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: composition rubric]
From: "Adele Raemer" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
Dear Cindy and interested ETNIers,
First of all, in the old bagrut, if you wrote a composition that was not on
the topic you got ZILCH! NADA! EFES! I think it is really important that
we teach our kids to organize their writing, using graphic organizers or
outlines, or whatever works for them, but if they cannot write a well
organized piece of writing that answers / addresses the question at hand,
then what good is it? When this kid goes out into the real world and his
boss asks him to write a report on the sales output for his firm, and he
writes a report on how the new product is manufactured, do you think is boss
will be complimentary about his beautiful collection of thoughts, the great
vocabulary and grammar he used?
Secondly, I admit, I do not know the new rubrics by heart, however, when
looking at the on the ETNI site:
http://www.etni.org.il/ministry/nba/writing.htm I notice a few things:
1. There is no writing rubric for G - it's the same as for F (as far as I
can tell)
2. The numbers you wrote are double what they should be. Each composition
is worth 20 points (not 40).
You wrote:
"> Rubric:
| | 8 ·information is relevant to the topic·fluent expression·ideas clearly
|
stated·text is well organized·task is written mostly in pupil's own words
| | 8·correct use of varied and rich vocabulary·effective word/idiom choice
|
and usage·use of appropriate register
| | 16·correct use of advanced language structures·few errors of agreement,
|
tense, word order, connectors, pronouns, prepositions
| | 8·few errors of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, paragraphing"
|
Looking at the assessment rubrics, what I see is this:
For the F level (and, I assume, the G) a learner is expected to make "few
errors of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, paragraphing" (which is
more realiztic than it has been until now: NO errors). In addition, while
they get 8 points for language, they also get 8 points altogether for
content, organization and vocabulary - which I think is a fair demand for 5
pointers. I actually like these rubrics better than the old ones. It will
take a little while to get used to using them, as with everything else new
(especially since I know the old ones by heart) but I really do think they
are an improvement.
I don't know how it is in your schools, but in my school, they teach writing
compositions in Hebrew really late! THIS is something I feel should be
changed in the school system: teaching composition writing formally (like we
do in English) from a much earlier age! It would make OUR jobs a lot
easier, and getting to these kids a lot earlier would make them all more
effective writers, which would transfer over to English.
As ever,
Adele
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 23:57:23 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: composition rubric]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Re: [FWD: composition rubric]]
From: "Adele Raemer" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
| | | | I admit that I don't know all these new euphemisms. What's
"appropriate
register?"
If it means appropriate vocabulary, then if the composition's message
is
off target, no points for it.
Batya
|
|
Dear Batya et al,
What "NEW euphemisms"? It is on the old scales, as well! Look at the 5
point writing scales.
What I tell my kids about register is:
If you are writing / speaking to your chum in class, you would not write /
speak the same way you world if you were addressing the President of the
United States, or the principal of your school, or your Rabbi (whatever
works). They understand that, no problem. It is more than vocabulary -
it's style of expression.
Adele
------------------------------
From: "Adele Raemer" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: [FWD: composition rubric]
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 07:21:43 +0200
| |
I'm having a problem with the rubrics for the B and D modules. Both exams
say that no points are deducted for spelling errors on answers to unseens,
yet in both exams, spelling is included in the composition rubric (in
mechanics). Are 3-pointers actually going to be penalized for spelling
mistakes in their compositions?
Bari
|
OK - I'm off on writing this morning , it seems :)
First of all, in the current 4 point exam, no points are taken off for
writing in the body of the exam; only in the composition. So there is no
change here.
Secondly, out of 30 points, the most that can be taken off for spelling,
punctuation and capitalization is 3 points! I do NOT think that is
demanding too much! After all, IF the kid is learning disabled, and needs
it, their spelling mistakes will be ignored. But for the most part, all
that is being demanded of them is to write a short piece that is connected
to the vocabulary of the reading passage. And we are not talking 3 points
for spelling, alone - it includes punctuation!
IMHO, if we demand nothing, we'll get nothing. If the kids know that they
are EXPECTED to pay attention to their spelling and punctuation, they will
be more motivated to do so that if they know that it doesn't matter (since
no points are taken off, anyway)
That's it - no more writing to the ETNI list this weekend for me!
;)
Adele
------------------------------
End of etni Digest V2 #10
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