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Fw: etni Digest V2 #49
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David Lloyd
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Feb 15, 2004 01:14 PST
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----- Original Message -----
From: "FreeLists Mailing List Manager" <ecar-@freelists.org>
To: "etni digest users" <"etni digestsubscribers"@freelists.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:18 AM
Subject: etni Digest V2 #49
etni Digest Sat, 14 Feb 2004 Volume: 02 Issue: 049
In This Issue:
[etni] Re: Project requirement for borderline 3-4 point pupi
[etni] Oral Bagrut
[etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
[etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
[etni] Re: Project requirement for borderline 3-4 point pupi
[etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
[etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
[etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
[etni] [FWD: Re: Re: Oral Bagrut]
[etni] How many projects?
[etni] Re: How many projects?
[etni] Retaking the Bagrut after the army
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "kobi" <kobi-@013.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Project requirement for borderline 3-4 point pupils
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:48:40 +0200
Hi Maxine,
I think you have misunderstood. Why should a pupil you intend to take
the 3 point bagrut (A, B and C) do the performance task in A, this is a
requirement only for the ones who stay with their one point!
Furthermore, if you think this particular student is bound to take the 4
or 5 point bagrut exam then why put him through the hard work of taking
all the modules?? Wait with him until the 11th grade where he could take
the C module (so as to see whether he's a good 3 pointer ) and then
according to his grade decide where he should go, 3 or 4 points...
Whatever you decide he still does one project!!
I hope that clears that and I hope I have it right :)
Kobi
-----Original Message-----
From: etni-b-@freelists.org [mailto:etni-b-@freelists.org] On
Behalf Of Maxine
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:08 PM
To: ETNI
Subject: [etni] Project requirement for borderline 3-4 point pupils
**** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
Sorry if this question has been asked already:
Imagine this hypothetical situation (actually not so hypothetical):
A pupil takes Module A this summer in the 11th grade. Doing a
performance task is, as I understand it, one of the requirements for the
1-point Bagrut. Then the pupil goes on to do Modules B and C in Winter
2004 for a 3-point Bagrut. One of the requirements for this level is a
PROJECT. Then, in the summer of 2004 the pupil tries valiantly for a
4-point Bagrut, i.e. Modules D and E. As I understand it, this entails
doing ANOTHER project on the 4-5 level. In other words: this type of
pupil (for whom the modular Bagrut is ostensibly intended) will have to
do TWO projects and ONE performance task, whereas the 5-point pupils
have, meanwhile, to do only ONE? Is it me, or is something screwy
somewhere?
Please advise. Regards, Maxine Tsvaigrach
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------------------------------
From: "Maxine" <max-@info-gate.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Oral Bagrut
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:40:16 +0200
As I understand it, as of this summer we have to give a school grade -
or in plain English, tsiyun shanati, for the Oral Bagrut as well as the
Written Bagrut.
My question concerns the calculation of the Oral Bagrut grade:
For those 5 pointers taking the modular Bagrut this summer, i.e. Modules E,
F and G, which of these three modules is the tsiyun shanati for the oral
Bagrut calculated into? Is it the highest module or is it Module E, since
that is the module that 4 and 5 have in common, the logic ("if logic govern
in a thing so convoluted" - paraphrase of a Robert Frost poem) being that
the oral Bagrut is the same for the 4 and 5 pointers? Which of the
modules is the oral BAGRUT grade calculated into for all three levels: 3
point, 4 point and 5 point?
Am I making myself clear? I hope so, because I have already confused myself
with these questions.
Thanks to anyone who knows and replies, Maxine Tsvaigrach
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:58:08 +0200
From: Steiner Family <stei-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
Maxine wrote:
As I understand it, as of this summer we have to give a school grade -
or in plain English, tsiyun shanati, for the Oral Bagrut as well as the
Written Bagrut.
My question concerns the calculation of the Oral Bagrut grade:
For those 5 pointers taking the modular Bagrut this summer, i.e. Modules E,
F and G, which of these three modules is the tsiyun shanati for the oral
Bagrut calculated into? Is it the highest module or is it Module E, since
that is the module that 4 and 5 have in common, the logic ("if logic govern
in a thing so convoluted" - paraphrase of a Robert Frost poem) being that
the oral Bagrut is the same for the 4 and 5 pointers? Which of the
modules is the oral BAGRUT grade calculated into for all three levels: 3
point, 4 point and 5 point?
Am I making myself clear? I hope so, because I have already confused myself
with these questions.
Judy's response:
The question is a good one! The answer will be clear when your school
receives the "kovetz she'elon shel bechinot habagrut." In the meantime, in
general it works like this:
a. Each test has a semel sheelon.
b. Then there is what is call semel rashi. This is the semel for which
tests
comprise the 3, 4, and 5 pt. levels.
c. So, for 4 pts., for example, there is a semel sheelon for each of
the
modules. The there is the semel rashi for 4 points which includes:
modules C, D, E and the semel sheelon for the oral bagrut.
It will be clearer when you receive the kovetz.
------------------------------
From: "Bari Nirenberg" <nire-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:54:31 +0200
| |
As I understand it, as of this summer we have to give a
school grade - or in plain English, tsiyun shanati, for the Oral
Bagrut as well as the Written Bagrut.
|
Now I'm really confused. I don't remember reading this anywhere. This page
doesn't say anything about giving a tsiyun shnati for the oral exam:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/nba/schoolgrade.htm
Bari
------------------------------
From: "Bari Nirenberg" <nire-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Project requirement for borderline 3-4 point pupils
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:50:47 +0200
| | I think you have misunderstood. Why should a pupil you intend to take
the 3 point bagrut (A, B and C) do the performance task in A, this is a
requirement only for the ones who stay with their one point!
|
This was not my understanding at all! I believe that the performance task
is a prerequisite to taking module A, regardless of what the student plans
to do later on.
Bari
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:50:11 +0200
From: sarag <sar-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
What I think (I'm not sure at all, but maybe...) is that the oral bagrut is
a test by itself.
We give a magen mark for it (which means we have to test, not just teach
.. - when do we do this?).
And let's say a kid gets 90 oral magen. and 80 on the oral test. His final
oral grade will be 85. this will be taken as 20% of the final bagrut mark.
OK - the math teacher in me will give an example.(Judy - please comment if
this is correct).
A 5 point kid has marks as follows:
E: magen 90 bagrut 90 final 90
F: magen 85 bagrut 80 final 82.5
G: magen 85 bagrut 77 final 81
The FINAL writen bagrut mark would be the average of the 3 final marks:
(90+82.5+81)/3=84.5
In the oral bagrut exam, he gets:
magen 80 bagrut 70 final 75
His FINAL FINAL grade will be :
80% writen grade = 84.5 x 0.8 = 67.6
20% oral grade = 75 x 0.2 = 15
add these 2 grades together and his
FINAL FINAL
5 point bagrut grade will be 67.5 + 15 = 82.5.
(The only question left to check is at what point do the grades get rounded
off - for each test or only at the final final grade.)
David/Gail -
If this example is correct, maybe put it up on ETNI - It might help people
to understand what is going on with the grades.
sara g
sara g in israel
sar-@netvision.net.il
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maxine" <max-@info-gate.co.il>
To: "ETNI" <et-@freelists.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 11:40 AM
Subject: [etni] Oral Bagrut
| | **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
As I understand it, as of this summer we have to give a school grade -
|
or in plain English, tsiyun shanati, for the Oral Bagrut as well as the
Written Bagrut.
| | My question concerns the calculation of the Oral Bagrut grade:
For those 5 pointers taking the modular Bagrut this summer, i.e. Modules
|
E, F and G, which of these three modules is the tsiyun shanati for the oral
Bagrut calculated into? Is it the highest module or is it Module E, since
that is the module that 4 and 5 have in common, the logic ("if logic govern
in a thing so convoluted" - paraphrase of a Robert Frost poem) being that
the oral Bagrut is the same for the 4 and 5 pointers? Which of the
modules is the oral BAGRUT grade calculated into for all three levels: 3
point, 4 point and 5 point?
| |
Am I making myself clear? I hope so, because I have already confused
|
myself with these questions.
| |
Thanks to anyone who knows and replies, Maxine Tsvaigrach
##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: et-@freelists.org
|
#####
| | ##### Send queries and questions to: as-@etni.org #####
|
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:39:31 +0200
From: Steiner Family <stei-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
Bari wrote:
Now I'm really confused. I don't remember reading this anywhere. This page
doesn't say anything about giving a tsiyun shnati for the oral exam:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/nba/schoolgrade.htm
Judy's answer:
Please have a look at the Chief Inspector's Bulletin:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/bulletin/february2004/docs/Guidelines%20for%20the%20Oral%20Bagrut%20%96%20Tzvira%20Format.doc
and you'll see that it is written there.
------------------------------
From: "Bari Nirenberg" <nire-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:41:25 +0200
Now I see it. Thanks. This means that my English speakers are going to
have no fewer than FOUR school grades this year in English. Mind
boggling...
Bari
-----Original Message-----
From: Steiner Family [mailto:stei-@netvision.net.il]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 16:40
To: nire-@actcom.co.il; max-@info-gate.co.il; ETNI
Subject: Re: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
Bari wrote:
Now I'm really confused. I don't remember reading this anywhere. This
page
doesn't say anything about giving a tsiyun shnati for the oral exam:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/nba/schoolgrade.htm
Judy's answer:
Please have a look at the Chief Inspector's Bulletin:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/bulletin/february2004/docs/Guidelines%20for%20t
he%20Oral%20Bagrut%20%96%20Tzvira%20Format.doc
and you'll see that it is written there.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:13:19 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: Re: Oral Bagrut]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] Re: Oral Bagrut
From: "Steiner Family" <stei-@netvision.net.il>
good try Sara, but it will not work that way.
it is given according to percentages in the kovetz sheelonim.
Judy
Sara wrote:
| | What I think (I'm not sure at all, but maybe...) is that the oral
bagrut is a test by itself.
We give a magen mark for it (which means we have to test, not just
teach ... - when do we do this?).
And let's say a kid gets 90 oral magen. and 80 on the oral test. His
final oral grade will be 85. this will be taken as 20% of the final bagrut
mark.
|
| | OK - the math teacher in me will give an example.(Judy - please
comment if this is correct).
A 5 point kid has marks as follows:
E: magen 90 bagrut 90 final 90
F: magen 85 bagrut 80 final 82.5
G: magen 85 bagrut 77 final 81
The FINAL writen bagrut mark would be the average of the 3 final
marks:
(90+82.5+81)/3=84.5
In the oral bagrut exam, he gets:
magen 80 bagrut 70 final 75
His FINAL FINAL grade will be :
80% writen grade = 84.5 x 0.8 = 67.6
20% oral grade = 75 x 0.2 = 15
add these 2 grades together and his
FINAL FINAL
5 point bagrut grade will be 67.5 + 15 = 82.5.
(The only question left to check is at what point do the grades get
rounded off - for each test or only at the final final grade.)
David/Gail -
If this example is correct, maybe put it up on ETNI - It might help
people
to understand what is going on with the grades.
sara g
|
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:55:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Rivka Lewenstein <rle-@yahoo.com>
Subject: [etni] How many projects?
Maxine wrote:
A pupil takes Module A this summer in the 11th grade. Doing a
performance task is, as I understand it, one of the requirements for the
1-point Bagrut. Then the pupil goes on to do Modules B and C in Winter
2004
for a 3-point Bagrut. One of the requirements for this level is a
PROJECT. Then, in the summer of 2004 the pupil tries valiantly for a
4-point Bagrut, i.e. Modules D and E. As I understand it, this entails
doing ANOTHER project on the 4-5 level. In other words: this type of
pupil (for whom the modular Bagrut is ostensibly intended) will have to
do TWO projects and ONE performance task, whereas the 5-point pupils
have, meanwhile, to do only ONE? Is it me, or is something screwy
somewhere? <SNIP>
I don't know if the performance task for one-point students is or isn't
required any more at this point (as there have been so many changes
regarding projects in general), but when it comes to students who are
definitely planning to do 3 points in the end, there is no doubt that they
don't have to do both a performance task and a project, since now only one
project is required. That means (to the best of my knowledge) that they can
take Module A without a performance task, then do a project before taking
Modules B and C.
Now, as for a new project for Modules D and E, it's not necessary IF you had
your students do a project which also met the requirements for a 4-point
project (i.e. based on 3 sources). That's what I'm doing with my borderline
4-pointers in 11th grade. They are now doing a project based on 3-4 sources.
This summer, they will do modules A-C, and be tested orally on their
project. Next summer, they will take Modules D and E, and will AGAIN be
tested on the same project, but this time as 4-pointers. You're absolutely
right - there's no reason they should work harder than anyone else.
All the best,
Rivka
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
------------------------------
From: "Bari Nirenberg" <nire-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: How many projects?
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:35:37 +0200
| |
I don't know if the performance task for one-point students is or
isn't required any more at this point (as there have been so many
changes regarding projects in general), but when it comes to
students who are definitely planning to do 3 points in the end,
there is no doubt that they don't have to do both a performance
task and a project, since now only one project is required. That
means (to the best of my knowledge) that they can take Module A
without a performance task, then do a project before taking
Modules B and C.
|
No, this is wrong, or at least according to the December chief inspector's
bulletin that included changes in the NBA. If you look here:
http://www.etni.org/ministry/bulletin/december2003/changesinNBAhandbook.doc
on page 24 you will see that students who do modules A, B and C (3 points)
are required to do one performance task PLUS one project (this is stated
very clearly in the table). Students who do C, D and E (4 points) or E, F
and G (5 points), however, are only required to do one project. It might
not make a whole lot of sense, but it's right there in black and white.
Bari
------------------------------
From: "N&M Barbiru" <neha-@bezeqint.net>
Subject: [etni] Retaking the Bagrut after the army
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:25:06 +0200
Dear Judy and List,
Graduates from my school are planning to retake the Bagrut next year. They
are either taking the same level or trying for a higher level.
I understand that as of next year the old format is out.
How are these graduates going to be tested - old or new format?
If they are tested by the new format, do they need to do all the modules or
only the extra, additional ones to the original level they have?
Thanks,
Nehama
------------------------------
End of etni Digest V2 #49
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