|
Fw: etni Digest V2 #68
|
David Lloyd
|
Mar 05, 2004 23:46 PST
|
----- Original Message -----
From: "FreeLists Mailing List Manager" <ecar-@freelists.org>
To: "etni digest users" <"etni digestsubscribers"@freelists.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: etni Digest V2 #68
| | etni Digest Fri, 05 Mar 2004 Volume: 02 Issue: 068
In This Issue:
[etni] English Learning Forum
[etni] [FWD: quicktionaries]
[etni] [FWD: re quicktionaries]
[etni] Re: New Bagrut - Modules F and G
[etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
[etni] [FWD: quicktionary and e. dicts]
[etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]
[etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
[etni] korczak quote of the week
[etni] Re: [FWD: re quicktionaries]
[etni] Re: New Bagrut - Modules F and G
[etni] Re: use of old cassettes
[etni] Jacob's Ladder Folk Festival
[etni] [FWD: Bagrut Schedule]
[etni] [FWD: information]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:51:41 +0200
From: "Michael(Dan) Ganor" <dga-@netvision.net.il>
Subject: [etni] English Learning Forum
Hi,
You are invited to see the English Learning Forum and send your students.
Youcan ask questions about learning English, tests, reading, writing,
listening, talking. Teachers are also invited to give help and join the
discussions.
We also talk about the history of the English language, its future, the
experiences of learning the language, movies, books...
Find games on-line, chat rooms, Internet sites and articles, and recommend
onyour favorite sites and games.
http://forums.nana.co.il/Forum/?ForumID=2190[1]
Dan
Manager of the English Learning Forum
--- Links ---
1 http://forums.nana.co.il/Forum/?ForumID=2190
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:01:38 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: quicktionaries]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: quicktionaries
From: "Harvith" <lhar-@bezeqint.net>
It seems to me that we have missed two important points throughout this
|
discussion.
| |
One is the issue of money. If the State provided quicktionaries for any
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student that wanted one, then the playing field would be leveled and it
could be considered a legitimate tool. But it doesn't. Do we want a
situation where if you have the financial resources you can virtually bypass
learning English?
| |
Two is what we are testing. If we are testing what has been learned, then
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the use of an electric translation device by passes this
| | completely. If we are testing knowledge of English, ditto. If we are
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testing communication in English by any means, then perhaps this is
legitimate.
| |
Lisa Harvith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:33:48 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: re quicktionaries]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
From: "howard sibirsky" <how-@012.net.il>
An answer may be for teachers to earn a living. Look around you right
|
now.
| | See all those products that you own to make your life not only easier but
|
to have more options and do your thing more efficiently.
| |
The difference with those who do not agree with me may lie in the fact
|
that I have taught foreign language in the USA. We used modern methology
including programmed texts, language labs, and so on. The system was so
successful that the head of the English Department at our Connecticut High
School complained. He complained that the student body was speaking and
| | writing English using Spanish grammar.
So, we cannot argue nor successfully discuss this question because we
|
both have experienced our own "system", but you have not experienced the one
I used years ago in a foreign, so foreign, land. Good luck
| |
Hanan
Fay wrote:
| | In answer to Howard - why bother to teach English at all ?
Fay
|
------------------------------
From: "bonnie" <bon-@actcom.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: New Bagrut - Modules F and G
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:29:34 +0200
Rivka,
While I agree that it would been better to have received the practice
|
books
| | earlier, I don't feel it's a reason to panic. Jargon aside, these modules
ask students to read and write efficiently and thoughtfully. Those who
|
have
| | worked throughout their years of English studies should be able to deal
|
with
| | the exams in whatever form. I feel we can trust them and should encourage
them to trust their own abilities.
Happy Purim
Bonnie
From: "Rivka Lewenstein" <rle-@yahoo.com>
To: <et-@freelists.org>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:45 AM
Subject: [etni] New Bagrut - Modules F and G
| | **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
Miriam, I absolutely agree with you that this situation in which you
|
|
find
| | yourself in regarding preparation for Modules F and G is horrendous. My
class is doing Modules A, B and C this year, and even for them I feel how
little time we have to work on Module C, as that ECB book didn't come out
too long ago either.
| |
Some of you may remember that I posted a request to the Ministry at the
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beginning of the year, asking that more sample exams be released. At the
time, Judy Steiner wrote back that the Ministry would not be sending out
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any
| | more sample exams. I was angry about that then, and now I'm even angrier.
|
If
| | the Ministry has the money to put together a committee to make up the NBA,
organize NBA courses all over the country, send out a million and one
handbooks, updates and bulletins, and write 2 different Bagrut tests in
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one
| | year (old and new), couldn't they find the funding to have one or two test
writers sit down for a few weeks and rewrite old Bagruyot to fit the New
Bagrut model? Really not that difficult, if you think about it.
| |
However, at this point, I don't think any complaints will change the
|
situation. Hopefully, the Ministry will be more understanding when it
|
comes
| | to grading the tests this year, but who knows?
| |
All the best,
Rivka
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##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: et-@freelists.org
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#####
| | ##### Send queries and questions to: as-@etni.org #####
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:40:09 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Fw: quicktionaries]
From: "Yisrael and Batya Medad" <ybme-@netvision.net.il>
| | At 11:47 04/03/04 -0700, you wrote:
Good, let students of the English language use any tool to translate
whole sentences. I also include the still great paper dictionary.
The computer you have used to e-mail this note is a tool that has
made communication easier. Now we can
|
Whether the computer is a tool and the quictionary is also a tool has
|
nothing whatsoever to do with the subject. Our job is not to train our
students to use technology. That's why I davka don't care that my students
have no internet access when doing projects. We are supposed to teach them
English, not technology.
| |
Personally I'd prefer that any paper dictionary be permitted for all
|
students. Let them bring three or four, which would be much better teaching
(and testing) tools, and far superior dictionary help, than the electric
dictionaries. I specialize in teaching the weaker and mild learning
disabled kids, and in my experience having a variety of paper dictionaries,
like Passport and the white Oxford and red Zilberman(?) help them much more.
When I teach higher level students, their composition-writing is far less
stressful. When I studied Spanish in NY as a student, we were always
allowed two-direction dictionaries, when dictionaries were needed.
| |
Batya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:43:39 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: quicktionary and e. dicts]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: quicktionary and e. dicts
From: "The Shermak Family" <po-@beeri.org.il>
This discussion hit a sore point!
I would never dream of teaching all of my classes the same curriculum
|
(11th- 5 point, 8th non-readers and 9th heterogenous ) however there is one
thing which remains consistent in all of my classes - my dislike (down right
loathing) of electronic dictionaries etc).
| |
A wonderful example to support my dislike is as such:
One of my students once wanted to write in a composition that "the man was
|
in trouble." He didn't know how to say trouble so he entered "Tzarot" into
his electronic dictionary (obviously unaware of the plural s" rule in
Hebrew) and received - yes you got it!- Narowness (better known as Tzaroot)
| |
Needless to say his composition was a total mess.
Why would we want to do this to our students? Teach them as early on as
|
possible how to use a dictionary. Have them put dividers in their
dictionary for easy access. Have them write the letters on the side (the
white pages side) for those who are having trouble still and above all -
| | MAKE THEM PRACTICE CONSTANTLY!
This is a skill for life (talk about teaching them how to fish!) Allow
|
them to bring the milonit into the test for confidence, but encourage them
to use a dictionary for actual accurate information and help.
| |
Thanks for listening.
Happy Purim!
Judie Shermak
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:32:46 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
From: "Howard Hanan Sibirsky" <how-@012.net.il>
GOOD, JUST AS GOOD. I wonder what foreign language teachers must have
|
said the day the paper dictionary was first invented. I assume the same
comments I have been reading lately on this site.
| |
IF IT WORKS FOR YOU THEN IT'S GOOD. Hanan
Batya wrote:
| | | | At 11:47 04/03/04 -0700, you wrote:
Good, let students of the English language use any tool to translate
whole sentences. I also include the still great paper dictionary.
The computer you have used to e-mail this note is a tool that has
made communication easier. Now we can
|
|
| | Whether the computer is a tool and the quictionary is also a tool has
nothing whatsoever to do with the subject. Our job is not to train our
students to use technology. That's why I davka don't care that my
|
|
students
| | | | have no internet access when doing projects. We are supposed to teach
them English, not technology.
Personally I'd prefer that any paper dictionary be permitted for all
students. Let them bring three or four, which would be much better
teaching (and testing) tools, and far superior dictionary help, than the
electric dictionaries. I specialize in teaching the weaker and mild
|
|
learning
| | | | disabled kids, and in my experience having a variety of paper
|
|
dictionaries,
| | | | like Passport and the white Oxford and red Zilberman(?) help them much
more.
When I teach higher level students, their composition-writing is far
less stressful. When I studied Spanish in NY as a student, we were
|
|
always
| | | | allowed two-direction dictionaries, when dictionaries were needed.
|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:28:33 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: re quicktionaries]
From: "litajack on ArkinNET" <lita-@arkinnet.com>
Everybody finds the interpretation they want.
If your students were speaking and writing English with Spanish grammar,
|
I would say that you had failed.
| | Re quicktionaries, I have no experience of them in teaching so have no
|
opinion.
| | Since they are now being recommended, presumably they have improved.
My son worked ON them when they were first being developed and I was not
|
particularly impressed.
| |
Lita Arkin
Hanan wrote:
| | An answer may be for teachers to earn a living. Look around you right
|
|
now.
| | | | See all those products that you own to make your life not only easier
|
|
but
| | | | to have more options and do your thing more efficiently.
The difference with those who do not agree with me may lie in the fact
that I have taught foreign language in the USA. We used modern
methologyincluding programmed texts, language labs, and so on. The
|
|
system was
| | | | so successful that the head of the English Department at our Connecticut
High School complained. He complained that the student body was
|
|
speaking
| | | | and writing English using Spanish grammar.
So, we cannot argue nor successfully discuss this question because we
both have experienced our own "system", but you have not experienced
the one I used years ago in a foreign, so foreign, land. Good luck
|
------------------------------
From: "avi tsur" <tsur-@hotmail.com>
Subject: [etni] korczak quote of the week
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:46:56 +0000
The school creates the rhythm of hours, days and years. The school staff
|
is
| | supposed to satisfy the current needs of young citizens. The child is a
rational being. He appreciates the needs, difficulties and impediments in
his life. Not a despotic order, stern discipline and distrustful control,
but tactful understanding, faith in experience, collaboration and
coexistence are the guidelines for child care.
The Child's Right to Respect ~ Janusz Korczak
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
------------------------------
From: "Adele Raemer and Laurie Levy" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: [FWD: re quicktionaries]
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:32:24 +0200
My problem with Quicktionaries is that I do not trust them (albeit - I
|
have
| | not seen the newest generation of Quicktionaries - maybe they are very
|
much
| | more satisfactory). I have had too many cases where kids were unable to
|
get
| | the correct information out, but just like I tell my kids who use other
types of electronic dictionaries, they MUST , in addition to the
|
electronic
| | one, know how to use (and bring, and use when doing class activities on
dictionary practice, as well as exams) a regular one. So - if a kid with
|
a
| | quicktionary ALSO has a regular one, and uses it in all of the dictionary
practice we do in class, I have no problem them using the quicktionary on
the test.
Leveling the playing field, I fear, is a lost cause - the fact that a kid
gets a dispensation, in the first place, already says that the parents
|
have
| | money that they can, and are willing, to spend on their children in this
|
way
| | (regardless of the controversy regarding proper exploitation of this). It
is also not our jobs, as teachers, to level playing fields, or enforce
justice. We are supposed to teach our kids to best use the tools of the
language. Does the new Quicktionary really turn a 4 pointer into a 5
pointer? Is it SO good that it allows them to answer all of the
|
questions,
| | grammatically and accurately? Not to mention, enabling a 3 pointer to do
|
a
| | 5 or even 4 point test. And if so, will it enable them to do all of the
tasks that are demanded (literature, extensive reading, composition
|
writing,
| | project work and the oral exams?) If so - great! Let them use it. If
|
they
| | are willing to invest all of the time and effort that it will take to have
them succeed, and pass the 5 point tests - why not? Don't forget, a kid
who does well on tests, no matter if it is due to using a quicktionary -
|
or
| | j ust being very good at English - but has not dome the work for the past
|
2
| | years - will get a poor yearly grade that will not allow the passing of
|
the
| | test - even if the grade of 100% is achieved! In addition, passing these
tests, I am certain, depends on a lot more than possession of a
Quicktionary. And if it does not - then there is something very wrong
|
with
| | our tests. If these are proficiency tests, and can be passed with minimal
knowledge of English + a Quicktionary - then there is something seriously
wrong with the test.
Having said all that, I would not recommend my learners invest in the
Quicktionary for the following reasons:
1. Not all learners work well, comfortably and effectively with it (a
|
fact
| | they will discover only after they have dished out all that money).
2. There has been so much ping-ponging back and forth - between allowing
|
it
| | on the Bagrut and then NOT allowing it (I think it was allowed some 5
|
years
| | ago- and even now, the Hozer says that this is valid until winter 2005 -
|
it
| | could change again), it is worth our learners' whiles to learn efficient
|
use
| | of the paper dictionary as well as a regular electronic.
That's my 2 cents.
Adele
----- Original Message -----
From: <as-@etni.org>
To: <et-@freelists.org>
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:33 PM
Subject: [etni] [FWD: re quicktionaries]
| | **** ETNI on the web http://www.etni.org.il http://www.etni.org ****
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [etni] [FWD: Re: quicktionaries]]
From: "howard sibirsky" <>
An answer may be for teachers to earn a living. Look around you right
|
now.
| | See all those products that you own to make your life not only easier
|
|
but
| | to have more options and do your thing more efficiently.
| |
The difference with those who do not agree with me may lie in the fact
|
that I have taught foreign language in the USA. We used modern methology
including programmed texts, language labs, and so on. The system was so
successful that the head of the English Department at our Connecticut High
School complained. He complained that the student body was speaking and
| | writing English using Spanish grammar.
So, we cannot argue nor successfully discuss this question because we
|
both have experienced our own "system", but you have not experienced the
|
one
| | I used years ago in a foreign, so foreign, land. Good luck
| |
Hanan
Fay wrote:
| | In answer to Howard - why bother to teach English at all ?
Fay
|
##### To send a message to the ETNI list email: et-@freelists.org
|
#####
| | ##### Send queries and questions to: as-@etni.org #####
|
------------------------------
From: "Adele Raemer and Laurie Levy" <rae-@nirim.co.il>
Subject: [etni] Re: New Bagrut - Modules F and G
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:38:40 +0200
Once again - a learner in the 11th grade who is taking E, F and G this
|
year
| | is taking them because s/he is native or near native level. These kids
should be able to pass anything on the 5 point level that is thrown at
them - and if they can not - maybe they should not be testing F and G this
year! Let them do it in the winter! Not having F and G mock exams out
|
yet
| | is, granted, an inconvience - but certainly nothing to get all worked up
about, and surely not "horrendous". Let's calm down here, and take
advantage of the fact that:
1. Since it is the first time, the testers will probably be relatively
lenient
2. If they DO do poorly, they can always retest in the winter, or next
summer.
Let's take a deep breath.... we CAN get through this, and take advantage
|
of
| | it to our learners' benefits.
Adele
Rivka wrote: " this situation in which you find yourself in regarding
preparation for Modules F and G is horrendous."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:49:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Menachem Vinegrad <men-@yahoo.com>
Subject: [etni] Re: use of old cassettes
Hi Judi and all Etniers.
Judi asks what to do with old Bagrut cassettes.
We always need to record cassetes for students with hatamot- so why not
|
record over them?You have to stick a bit of sellotape over the little holes
at the top cornersof the cassette. Voila! No need to buy any more cassettes.
| |
Menachem
Don't Miss .....
Jacob's Ladder Folk Festival,
Improved stage area- improved camping
31st April/1st May 2004
Nof Ginnosar
Israel.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:07:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Menachem Vinegrad <men-@yahoo.com>
Subject: [etni] Jacob's Ladder Folk Festival
Hi Etni Folks,
We'd like to remind all of you that the only English speaking, singing,
|
and playing... music festival in Israel takes place on April 30th/May First
at Nof Ginosar on the Kinneret.
| | It is a truly family affair- with lots to do for everyone. There will be
|
music and storytelling sessions for kids in English. Visiting artists
include bluegrass and country musicians from the US and Gt Britain, as well
as Noah Zacharin - singer/songwriter from Canada.
| | The affair is layed back and civilized- how we would wish all Israelis to
|
behave!
| | All details can be found on our website:
www.jlfestival.com
We hope to see you there,
Menachem & Yehudit Vinegrad
Don't Miss .....
Jacob's Ladder Folk Festival,
Improved stage area- improved camping
31st April/1st May 2004
Nof Ginnosar
Israel.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:45:17 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: Bagrut Schedule]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Bagrut Schedule
From: "Barabra or Yaacov Ori" <oja-@inter.net.il>
Dear fellow ETNIANS,
If anyone has any idea what the exact schedule is for May 18th, I would
|
appreciate knowing or at least being directed to this information. The
English coordinators in each school need to know how to organize the testing
of those who are tested orally. Since we must send a letter in with the
names of our teacher testers and the students they will be testing to our
inspectors (and soon), the exact time for each module and the old format
times are vital so that we don't overlap and find out to our dismay that the
same teacher is supposed to test in two places at the same time.
| | Thanks- Barbara Ori
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:32:02 -0700
From: as-@etni.org
Subject: [etni] [FWD: information]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: information
From: "Hadas Tal" <shah-@netvision.net.il>
I would very much like to contact teachers who have taught English in
|
China.
| | Thank you, Sharon Tal
------------------------------
End of etni Digest V2 #68
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