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DIALOG PART 3 - IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCT  Anarchist Federation
 Oct 17, 2002 09:49 PDT 
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ANARCHIST FEDERATION
http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear fellows

We have received some comments and will once more try to answer your questions and comments point by point.

1. Andrew Flood has sent some disinformation called "health warning" to you, that is far from healthy in the meaning of sound, matter of fact arguments. As the history of the AF/IFA/AI is well documented on www.anarchy.no as well as the independent world's greatest institute of labour history IISG/IISH in the Netherlands, and the server "flag.blackened.net" that Andrew Flood is referring to is run by trotskyite "friends" and marxian council commies, and not anarchists, we will just reject everything Andrew Flood says in this connection as lies, smearstories and disinformation. Just take a look at http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html and http://www.anarchy.no/iwwai.html to see what this is all about.

2. Andrea Volfova has sent a note, also with mainly disinformation: "The argument that the expansion of the EU will fulfill Hitler's version of "Gross Germania" is based not on the concern about preventing the subordinaton of other nations (as Hitler intended), but on sheer xenophobia." We have no xenophobia, so this is nonsense. What will happen in a "common" east and west labour market is that the lack of standards in the east will set the standard in the west, slave contracts, overpopulation and much unemployment will be among the results. This means more repression economcial and political/administrative of the grassroots and working class people in general. The big nations will also repress the smaller nations, etc. - all in all quite similar to Hitler's Gross Germania. The axis Paris-Berlin-Brüssel will rule the whole thing. A better way for the people and labour in the east is real investments in the Eastern Europe, i.e. economical growth in the Eastern Europe, without the problems mentioned above.

3. Four persons will be removed from the discussion. The webmaster will remove them tomorrow. Anyone else that will be removed should just reply to this mail. They will all be removed tomorrow.

L. Flanagan

Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist Federation

PS. Libertarian greetings from our fellows at Folkebladet. They have a special issue on the European Union that we have discussed. Interesting.

Furthermore, I repeat that you should feel free to take a look at the basic course at http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dear Ben Archibald and other Fellow Citizens of Earth

I will once more try to answer your questions and comments point by point.

----- Original Message -----
From: ben.arc-@nistudents.com
To: 'Anarchist Federation' ; ne-@examiner.ie
Cc: ...
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Gluaiseacht] DIALOG PART 1 - IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER


Fellow Citizens of Earth:

I note that most of your reasoning is based on narrow-based anarchist resources.

It is true that the links mentioned in dialog part 1 below are found among anarchist web-pages, say, linked at the Anarchist International Information Service at www.anarchy.no . However it is not true that the reasoning is "based on narrow-based anarchist resources". Both liberalistical, marxian and populist/fascist sources and resources are discussed, quoted and referred in a scientifical, matter of fact way. The basic idea of the International Journal of Anarchism, Freedom Online, Black Flag - Organ of the ABC, Folkebladet, and other libertarian journals, see http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/links.html , is a.o.t. to make broad based summaries of the democratic dialog, presentation of new research and discussions in the public room both local and internationally, and use this information matter of fact within the framework of the most updated social science, i.e. the research front, of course also taking into account the libertarian perspective, but also discussing marxian, liberalist, and populist/fascist economical-political tendencies. Say, at IJ@ 4 (31) also the aid program of the European Union at Sri Lanka is discussed. And Adolf Hitler's political testament referred in the AF press release about the Nice referendum, is certainly no anarchist document.... Thus, your statement above Ben, must be rejected as not valid.

... (Ben continues) ... that's a pity, because there is a wealth of information all over the internet, not just on Anarchist sites.

Of course we use other, not only anarchist, material in the research and reasoning, as mentioned above. We use the Internet a lot, but also other material, in general, not only anarchist web-sites and other libertarian information. Anybody may do a general search on Internet, say, using the search engine at http://www.anarchy.no/links.html powered by Google, to get more information about the Nice treaty etc..

   I do accept that there is degree of importance attached to the treaty's acceptance in ireland; in reality, it doesn't matter what Ireland says all that much.

First you say that there is a "degree of importance attached to" the referendum, indicating this is significant. Then you say "it doesn't matter" - indicating it is not significant. This is rather contradictive, please make up your mind and be more matter of fact. Our analysis tell it is important, a.o.t. because a No will send a signal to Poland, etc.,. that the working class people of Ireland, the grassroots, don't want an expansion, at least now. The referendum in Ireland is only one among a lot in this matter - we will take the fight all along...

The problem with the 'think globally, act locally' idea is basically that not enough thinking is being done, whilst the action is, unfortunately, chaotic at best.

Ben Archibald
Convenor,
NUS-USI The Student Movement in Northern Ireland

We have thought of this matter a lot in the AF and AI in general, so we think we have solid and logical background for the conclusions. Furthermore, sometimes the Anarchist International co-ordinates world wide actions, see http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html . Then we have "think globally, act globally", that may also be anarchistical in some matters.

Feel free to try the basic course at http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html to be more updated on anarchism, marxism, liberalism and fascism, i.e.the social science research front.

Best regards - and vote NO on Saturday!
L. Flanagan

Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist Federation


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Anarchist Federation [mailto:if-@anarchy.no]
Sent: 17 October 2002 12:59
To: ben.arc-@nistudents.com; ne-@examiner.ie
Cc: ...
Subject: Re: [Gluaiseacht] DIALOG PART 1 - IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER - D


    ANARCHIST FEDERATION
    http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Dear Ben Archibald

      I will try to answer your questions and comments point by point.

      ---- Original Message -----
      From: ben.arc-@nistudents.com
      Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:06 PM
      Subject: RE: [Gluaiseacht] IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER


      Fellow envirenthusiasts,

      How on earth can you have an anarchist federation? It makes NO SENSE.

      Anarchists have all of the time since medio 19th century been organized in federations, i.e. confederations, internationals, co-operatives, etc. included.

      Also, total lunacy to attempt to present a united front for anarchy or to invite anarchists to involve themselves in organised democracy.

      Anarchists are not against democracya and not lunatic. We want real democracy as opposed to pseudodemocracy. See chapter I, Summary at http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html for a short briefing.

      Also, it's clear that the anarchic approach to selective reading has been adopted: selecting words from various documents and attempting to chaotically re-interpret them.

      Pjotr Kropotkin defined the anarchist method of research already in 1903-13, see http://www.anarchy.no/kropot1.html , i.e. similar to the method of natural sciences. This method is still the only confirmed and acknowledged by the Anarchist International. This method implicates consistency, but not uniformity, and thus rejects the above mentioned hermeneutical "method", i.e. what you suggest is not according to the scientifical method used for defining anarchy and anarchist research, and thus it is not anarchic, i.e anarchist, but the opposite - authoritarian or irrelevant. At http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html chapter V this item is further discussed.

       In reality, of course, the vote has n'ary an effect on the expansion policy.

      We think it in reality has some influence on the development of the European Union, and that a No vote strengthens what we see as good for the people, and a Yes vote works the opposite way, i.e. for the authorities against the people. This matter is about degrees, not 100% vs zero.

       If you're going to argue against the Nice treaty, at least make sure the argument has some fleeting relationship to the text of the treaty: Finally, as far as I was aware, Herr Hitler wasn't present at the commital ceremony.

      If you go to a public library with a relevant political department, and read the manifesto on the future of Europe etc. of Adolf Hitler, stated in is political last will, you will understand better what we mean, especially if you combine this with the reasoning at http://www.anarchy.no/ija132.html and other relevant material at www.anarchy.no . A quick expansion of the European Union eastwards may result in something like the situation in Argentina and Italy in the European Union in general, or worse. See http://www.anarchy.no/ija631.html and http://www.anarchy.no/apt.html and http://www.anarchy.no/aneco1.html

      I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

      Ben Archibald
      Convenor,
      NUS-USI The Student Movement in Northern Ireland

      Take a look at the basic course of political economy and sociology at http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html
      and you will soon find out that you are wrong at least in some of your prejudices and biased opinions about - and against - anarchism.

      Best regards - and vote NO on Saturday!

      L. Flanagan

      Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist Federation


        To: ne-@examiner.ie
        Cc: ...
        Subject: [Gluaiseacht] IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER
------------------------------------------------------------------------



        ANARCHIST FEDERATION
        http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html


------------------------------------------------------------------------


        IRELAND - VOTE NO



        FOR JOBS, GROWTH AND THE BEST FUTURE FOR THE GRASSROOTS OF IRELAND - VOTE NO 19 OCTOBER.

        Don't back the treaty - Vote No to the Nice Treaty on Saturday. Teach the Government, led by Mr Ahern's Fianna Fail party, a real lesson on 19 October.

        The Nice Treaty is being put to the vote for a second time, 16 months after it was rejected in its first public test. It is a key part of the European Union's plans to take in new members, and fulfill Adolf Hitler's political last will about creating a Gross Germania with the capital in Brüssel*. If the treaty is passed in Ireland, expansion should go ahead without further hitches in 2004. If it is rejected, it throws a spanner in the works - delaying expansion for an unknown period. "No" campaigners must woo the 24% of undecided voters. All libertarians should join in direct actions to create a No-majority.

        European Enlargement Commissioner Guenter Verheugen spoke optimistically about the progress of the Yes campaign on Sunday, saying the odds offered by Irish bookmakers indicated a victory. Anarchists have another opinion, but the result depends on joint direct action for a No vote, via Internet, on the workplaces and in the streets.

        The No campaign suffered a setback when chief spokesman Justin Barrett confirmed attending meetings of far-right parties in Italy and Germany. This must however not stop libertarians to enter the No campaign. Barrett has also insisted that he had been unaware of this. Latest opinion polls suggest that 41% of voters are planning to back the treaty, with 27% against. The crucial "undecided" sector stands at 24% - high enough to swing the result either way. The Irish Government on Monday renewed its campaign to persuade voters to take part and vote yes. The anarchists call for the opposite - a loud and clear NO Saturday 19 October!

        FOR JOBS, GROWTH AND THE BEST FUTURE FOR THE GRASSROOTS OF IRELAND - VOTE NO 19 OCTOBER.
        ONLY THE AUTHORITIES AND UPPER CLASSES WILL BENEFIT FROM A YES.

        Best regards
        L. Flanagan
        Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist Federation


------------------------------------------------------------------------

        PS. Also updated comments on the "Boycott of Mick the yellow shit" at Freedom Online http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afbpress1.html

        Updated news and comments on terrorism in Finland at http://www.anarchy.no/ija431.html

        CLICK ON: www.anarchy.no

        *) Or a similar city in the same area west of northern Germany

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<DIV align=center><FONT face=CenturionOld size=6><STRONG>ANARCHIST
FEDERATION<BR></STRONG><STRONG><A
href="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html"><FONT color=#000000
size=4>http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html</FONT></A></STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT
size=7>
<P align=center>
<HR>
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Dear fellows</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">We have received some comments and will once
more try to answer your questions and comments point by point.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">1. Andrew Flood has sent some disinformation
called "health warning" to you, that is far from healthy in the meaning of
sound, matter of fact arguments. As the history of the AF/IFA/AI is well
documented on <A href="http://www.anarchy.no">www.anarchy.no</A> as well as the
independent world's greatest institute of labour history IISG/IISH in the
Netherlands, and the server "flag.blackened.net" that Andrew Flood is referring
to is run by trotskyite "friends" and marxian council commies, and not
anarchists, we will just reject everything Andrew Flood says in this connection
as lies, smearstories and disinformation. Just take a look at <A
href="http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html">http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html</A> and
 <A
href="http://www.anarchy.no/iwwai.html">http://www.anarchy.no/iwwai.html</A> to
see what this is all about.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">2. Andrea Volfova has sent a note, also with
mainly disinformation: "<FONT color=#0000ff>The argument that the expansion of
the EU will fulfill Hitler's version of "Gross Germania" is based not
on the concern about preventing the subordinaton of other nations (as
Hitler intended), but on sheer xenophobia." </FONT>We have no xenophobia,
so this is nonsense. What will happen in a "common" east and west labour market
is that the lack of standards in the east will set the standard in the west,
slave contracts, overpopulation and much unemployment will be among the results.
This means more repression economcial and political/administrative of the
grassroots and working class  people in general. The big nations will also
repress the smaller nations, etc. - all in all quite similar to Hitler's Gross
Germania. The axis Paris-Berlin-Brüssel will rule the whole thing. A better way
for the people and labour in the east is real investments in the Eastern
Europe, i.e. economical growth in the Eastern Europe, without the problems
mentioned above.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">3. Four persons will be removed from the
discussion. The webmaster will remove them tomorrow. Anyone else that will be
removed should just reply to this mail. They will all be removed tomorrow.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>L. Flanagan</FONT></P>
<P><STRONG><EM>Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist
Federation</EM></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><EM>PS.  Libertarian greetings from our fellows at
Folkebladet. They have a special issue on the European Union that we have
discussed. Interesting.</EM></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><EM>Furthermore, I repeat that you should feel free to take a
look at the basic course at <A
href="http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html">http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html</A></EM></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><EM> </P>
<P>
<HR>
</P></EM></STRONG></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Dear Ben Archibald and other <SPAN
class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fellow Citizens of
Earth</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">I will once more try to answer your questions and
comments point by point.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><BR>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ben.-@nistudents.com
href="mailto:ben.arc-@nistudents.com">ben.arc-@nistudents.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@anarchy.no
href="mailto:if-@anarchy.no">'Anarchist Federation'</A> ; <A
title-@examiner.ie href="mailto:ne-@examiner.ie">ne-@examiner.ie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <STRONG>...</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Gluaiseacht] DIALOG PART 1
- IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Fellow Citizens of Earth:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
note that most of your reasoning is based on narrow-based anarchist
resources.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is true that
the links mentioned in dialog part 1 below are found among anarchist
web-pages, say, linked at  the Anarchist International Information
Service at <A href="http://www.anarchy.no"><FONT
color=#000000>www.anarchy.no</FONT></A> .</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2> However it is not true that
the reasoning is  "based on narrow-based anarchist resources". Both
liberalistical, marxian and populist/fascist sources and resources are
discussed, quoted and referred in a scientifical, matter of fact way. The
basic idea of the International Journal of Anarchism, Freedom Online, Black
Flag - Organ of the ABC, Folkebladet, and other libertarian journals, see <A
href="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/links.html"><FONT
color=#000000>http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/links.html</FONT></A> , is
a.o.t. to make broad based summaries of the democratic dialog, presentation of
new research and discussions<STRONG><U> in the public room</U></STRONG> both
local and internationally, and use this information matter of fact within the
framework of the most updated social science, i.e. the research front, of
course also taking into account the libertarian perspective, but also
discussing marxian, liberalist, and populist/fascist economical-political
tendencies. Say, at IJ@ 4 (31) also the aid program of the European Union at
Sri Lanka is discussed. And Adolf Hitler's political testament referred in the
 AF press release about the Nice referendum, is certainly no anarchist
document.... Thus, your statement above Ben, must be rejected as not
valid.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>...
(Ben continues) ... that's a pity, because there is a wealth of information
all over the internet, not just on Anarchist sites.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course we use
other, not only anarchist,  material in the research and reasoning,
as mentioned above. We use the Internet a lot, but also other
material, in general, not only anarchist web-sites and other libertarian
information. Anybody may do a general search on Internet, say, using the
search engine at <A href="http://www.anarchy.no/links.html"><FONT
color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/links.html</FONT></A> powered by
Google, to get more information about the Nice treaty etc..</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> I do accept that there is degree of importance attached to the
treaty's acceptance in ireland; in reality, it doesn't matter what Ireland
says all that much.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>First you say that
there is a "degree of importance attached to" the referendum, indicating this
is significant. Then you say "it doesn't matter"  - indicating it is
not significant. This is rather contradictive, please make up your mind
and be more matter of fact. Our analysis tell it is important, a.o.t.
because a No will send a signal to Poland, etc.,. that the working
class people of Ireland, the grassroots, don't want an expansion, at
least now.</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>The referendum in Ireland is
only one among a lot in this matter - we will take the fight all
along...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
problem with the 'think globally, act locally' idea is basically that not
enough thinking is being done, whilst the action is, unfortunately, chaotic at
best.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Ben Archibald</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Convenor,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>NUS-USI The Student
Movement in Northern Ireland</FONT> </SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have thought of
this matter a lot in the AF and AI in general, so we think we have solid and
logical background for the conclusions. Furthermore, sometimes the Anarchist
International co-ordinates world wide actions, see <A
href="http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html"><FONT
color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/ai.html</FONT></A> . Then we have
"think globally, act globally", that may also be anarchistical in some
matters.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Feel free to try
the basic course at <A
href="http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html">http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html</A> to
be more updated on anarchism, marxism, liberalism and fascism, i.e.the social
science research front.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Best regards - and vote NO on Saturday!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>L. Flanagan</FONT></P>
<P><STRONG><EM>Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist
Federation</EM></STRONG></P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=063145511-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>
<HR>
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
Anarchist Federation [mailto:if-@anarchy.no]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 17 October 2002
12:59<BR><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:ben.arc-@nistudents.com">ben.arc-@nistudents.com</A>;
<A href="mailto:ne-@examiner.ie">ne-@examiner.ie</A><BR><B>Cc:</B>
<STRONG>...</STRONG><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gluaiseacht] DIALOG PART 1 -
IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER -
D<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
    <DIV align=center><FONT face=CenturionOld size=6><STRONG>ANARCHIST
    FEDERATION<BR></STRONG><STRONG><A
    href="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html"><FONT color=#000000
    size=4>http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html</FONT></A></STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT
    size=7>
    <P align=center>
    <HR>
    </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
    style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Dear Ben Archibald</DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">I will try to answer your questions and
      comments point by point.</DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">---- Original Message ----- </DIV>
      <DIV
      style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
      <A title=ben.-@nistudents.com
      href="mailto:ben.arc-@nistudents.com">ben.arc-@nistudents.com</A>
      </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 17, 2002
      12:06 PM</DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Gluaiseacht] IRELAND -
      VOTE NO TO THE UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2>Fellow envirenthusiasts,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2>How on earth can you have an anarchist federation?  It makes
      NO SENSE. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anarchists
      have all of the time since medio 19th century been organized in
      federations, i.e. confederations, internationals, co-operatives,
      etc. included.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2>Also, total lunacy to attempt to present a united front for anarchy
      or to invite anarchists to involve themselves in organised
      democracy. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2><FONT color=#000000>Anarchists are not against democracya and not
      lunatic. We want real democracy as opposed to
      pseudodemocracy.</FONT> <FONT color=#000000>See chapter I, Summary at
      </FONT><A href="http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html"><FONT
      color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html</FONT></A><FONT
      color=#000000> for a short briefing.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2>Also, it's clear that the anarchic approach to selective reading
      has been adopted:  selecting words from various documents and
      attempting to chaotically re-interpret them. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pjotr
      Kropotkin defined the anarchist method of research already in 1903-13, see
      </FONT><A href="http://www.anarchy.no/kropot1.html"><FONT face=Arial
      color=#000000 size=2>http://www.anarchy.no/kropot1.html</FONT></A><FONT
      face=Arial size=2> , i.e. similar to the method of natural sciences.
      This method is still the only confirmed and acknowledged by the Anarchist
      International.</FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2> This method
      implicates consistency, but not uniformity, and thus rejects the above
      mentioned hermeneutical "method", i.e. what you suggest is
      not according to the scientifical method used for defining
      anarchy and anarchist research, and thus it is not anarchic, i.e
      anarchist, but the opposite - authoritarian or irrelevant. At <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html"><FONT
      color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/a_e_p_m.html</FONT></A> chapter V this
      item is further discussed.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2> In reality, of course, the vote has n'ary an effect on the
      expansion policy. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>We think it in
      reality has some influence on the development of the European Union, and
      that a No vote strengthens what we see as good for the people, and a Yes
      vote works the opposite way, i.e. for the authorities against the people.
      This matter is about degrees, not 100% vs
      zero.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2> If you're going to argue against the Nice treaty, at least
      make sure the argument has some fleeting relationship to the text of the
      treaty:  Finally, as far as I was aware, Herr Hitler wasn't present
      at the commital ceremony.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you go to a
      public library with a relevant political department, and read the
      manifesto on the future of Europe etc. of Adolf Hitler, stated in is
      political last will, you will understand better what we mean, especially
      if you combine this with the reasoning at <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/ija132.html"><FONT
      color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/ija132.html</FONT></A> and other
      relevant material at <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no">www.anarchy.no</A> . A quick expansion
      of the European Union eastwards may result in something like the situation
      in Argentina and Italy in the European Union in general, or worse.
      See  <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/ija631.html">http://www.anarchy.no/ija631.html</A> </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
      class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>and <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/apt.html">http://www.anarchy.no/apt.html</A> and
      <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/aneco1.html">http://www.anarchy.no/aneco1.html</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2>I could be wrong, but I doubt it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ben
      Archibald</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Convenor,</FONT> <BR><FONT
      face=Arial size=2>NUS-USI The Student Movement in Northern Ireland</FONT>
      </SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>Take a look at
      the basic course of political economy and sociology at <A
      href="http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html"><FONT
      color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/course1.html</FONT></A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial size=2>and you will
      soon find out that you are wrong at least in some of your prejudices and
      biased opinions about - and against  -
      anarchism.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
      size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=419225609-17102002>
      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best regards - and vote NO on
      Saturday!</FONT></P>
      <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>L. Flanagan</FONT></P>
      <P><STRONG><EM>Spokesperson of the Irish section of the anglophone
      Anarchist Federation</EM></STRONG></P></SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
        size=2><BR><B>To:</B> <A
        href="mailto:ne-@examiner.ie">ne-@examiner.ie</A><BR><B>Cc:</B>
        <STRONG>...<BR>Subject:</STRONG> [Gluaiseacht] IRELAND - VOTE NO TO THE
        UGLY "NICE" TREATY 19 OCTOBER
        <HR>
        <BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV align=center><FONT face=CenturionOld size=6><STRONG>ANARCHIST
        FEDERATION<BR></STRONG><STRONG><A
        href="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html"><FONT color=#000000
        size=4>http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afb.html</FONT></A></STRONG></FONT></DIV><FONT
        size=7>
        <P align=center>
        <HR>

        <P></P>
        <P align=center>IRELAND - VOTE NO</FONT></P>
        <P align=center><IMG height=200
        src="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/votenoireland.jpg" width=300
        NOSEND="1"></P>
        <P align=center><FONT size=6>FOR JOBS, GROWTH AND THE BEST FUTURE FOR
        THE GRASSROOTS OF IRELAND - VOTE NO 19 OCTOBER.</FONT></P>
        <P><FONT size=5>Don't back the treaty - Vote No to the Nice Treaty on
        Saturday. Teach the Government, led by Mr Ahern's Fianna Fail party, a
        real lesson on 19 October. </FONT></P>
        <P>The Nice Treaty is being put to the vote for a second time, 16 months
        after it was rejected in its first public test. It is a key part of the
        European Union's plans to take in new members, and fulfill<B> Adolf
        Hitler's</B> political last will about creating a <I><B>Gross
        Germania</B></I> with the capital in Brüssel*. If the treaty is passed
        in Ireland, expansion should go ahead without further hitches in 2004.
        If it is rejected, it throws a spanner in the works - delaying expansion
        for an unknown period. "No" campaigners must woo the 24% of undecided
        voters. All libertarians should join in direct actions to create a
        No-majority. </P>
        <P>European Enlargement Commissioner Guenter Verheugen spoke
        optimistically about the progress of the Yes campaign on Sunday, saying
        the odds offered by Irish bookmakers indicated a victory. <B>Anarchists
        have another opinion, but the result depends on joint direct action for
        a No vote, via Internet, on the workplaces and in the streets.</B></P>
        <P>The No campaign suffered a setback when chief spokesman Justin
        Barrett confirmed attending meetings of far-right parties in Italy and
        Germany. <B>This must however not stop libertarians to enter the No
        campaign.</B> Barrett has also insisted that he had been unaware of
        this. Latest opinion polls suggest that 41% of voters are planning to
        back the treaty, with 27% against. The crucial "undecided" sector stands
        at 24% - high enough to swing the result either way. The Irish
        Government on Monday renewed its campaign to persuade voters to take
        part and vote yes. <B><I>The anarchists call for the opposite - a loud
        and clear NO Saturday 19 October!</I></B></P>
        <P align=center><FONT size=6>FOR JOBS, GROWTH AND THE BEST FUTURE FOR
        THE GRASSROOTS OF IRELAND - VOTE NO 19 OCTOBER. <BR>ONLY THE AUTHORITIES
        AND UPPER CLASSES WILL BENEFIT FROM A YES. </FONT></P>
        <P align=center><B><I>Best regards <BR>L. Flanagan<BR>Spokesperson of
        the Irish section of the anglophone Anarchist Federation</I></B></P>
        <DIV>
        <HR>
        </DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><FONT face=arial size=2><U>PS. Also
        updated comments on the "Boycott of Mick the yellow shit" at
        Freedom Online </U><A
        href="http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afbpress1.html"><FONT
        color=#000000>http://www.powertech.net/anarchy/afbpress1.html</FONT></A></FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><U><FONT face=arial
        size=2></FONT></U></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><FONT face=arial size=2><U>Updated news
        and comments on terrorism in Finland at </U><A
        href="http://www.anarchy.no/ija431.html"><FONT
        color=#000000>http://www.anarchy.no/ija431.html</FONT></A></FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
        <DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face=arial
        size=2></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><FONT face=Arial size=2>CLICK ON: <A
        href="http://www.anarchy.no">www.anarchy.no</A></FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><FONT face=Arial
        size=2></FONT></EM></STRONG> </DIV>
        <DIV align=center><STRONG><EM><FONT face=Arial size=2>*) Or a similar
        city in the same area west of northern
      Germany</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE> </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>==^==^=============================================================
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>

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