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[jft-@toast.net] Walt - Abandoned the Debate?  Errancy Archive
 Jul 22, 2007 20:27 PDT 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [errancy] Walt - Abandoned the Debate?
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:59:38 -0500
From: Farrell Till <jft-@toast.net>
Reply-To: erra-@iierrancy.com

JASON
So, Farrell, do you concede that you were wrong about Ishmael? After I made
a couple of replies, I didn't see any of your responses.

TILL
You didn't? Then you weren't looking very hard. I replied first to your
"rebuttal" of Point Fourteen, where you said that the versions of Genesis
21:14-15 posted by John Kesler (The NAB and the LXX) didn't exist but were
only inventions. I posted URLs where both translations can be verified.

Your reply? I never saw any.

I then went back to point one, replied to it, then went to point two, replied
to it, then to point three, and replied to it. By then you had stopped
posting, so I saw no need to waste time on something you were not going to
reply to.

If you will promise this group that you will reply to each of my rebuttals of
your so-called "replies," I will repost the four or five already sent and then
go through the others.

Do you agree to this? If so, you might begin by replying to my response to
your "rebuttal" of Point Fourteen. Here it is again.

JASON
First, we need to decide who [sic] to trust. If we have a translation that
disagrees with Till, who is more authoritative? Do we trust the multitude of
Bible scholars or Till?

TILL
Here is a better question: should we trust instead someone who doesn't even
bother to check a translation quoted by an opponent (Kesler and the NAB) but
simply jumps immediately to declare...

This isn't true and this isn't in any translation. This is completely made
up.

Should we trust someone who would so obviously blunder and then turn around
and repeat the blunder further along when he declared Kesler's quotation of
the Septuagint version of Genesis 21:14 to be "an invention"?

Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851 LXX version
14 And Abraam rose up in the morning and took loaves and a skin of
water, and gave them to Agar, and he put the child on her shoulder, and
sent her away, and she having departed wandered in the wilderness
near the well of the oath.

JASON
Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851 LXX version
14 And Abraam rose up in the morning and took loaves and a skin of
water, and gave them to Agar, and he put the child on her shoulder, and
sent her away, and she having departed wandered in the wilderness
near the well of the oath.

JASON
Again, this is an invention.

Is it an "invention"? Well, anyone who wants to check can go to an on-line
version of the Septuagint <http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Genesis/index.htm> and
check to see. After bringing up the on-line version, you can scroll down to
chapter 21, where you will find the following, just as Kesler quoted it.

And Abraam rose up in the morning and took loaves and a skin of water, and
gave them to Agar, and he put the child on her shoulder, and sent her away,
and she having departed wandered in the wilderness near the well of the oath.
15 And the water failed out of the skin, and she cast the child under a fir
tree.

Obviously, Gastrich, despite his [snicker, snicker] Ph. D., is hardly
qualified to judge which translations are "better." He doesn't even have the
common sense to check what a translation says before he declares it "an
invention."

When you show your good intentions by admitting that you seriously blundered
when you said that there is no such translation as the NAB version of Genesis
21:14 and that the Septuagint version quoted by Kesler was "an invention," I
will start reposting my other replies. Or maybe you will want to just pull a
McDonald and try to claim that when you said that there was no such
translation, you didn't mean that there was no such translation.


Farrell Till
The Skeptical Review Online
http://www.theskepticalreview.com

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