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RE: [errancy] McDonald-Till Debate
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elya-@prodigy.net.mx
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Aug 08, 2007 11:20 PDT
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Chip Kempston wrote:
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--- elya-@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
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Chip Kempston wrote:
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--- elya-@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
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<time2-@frontiernet.net>
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| | Quoting elya-@prodigy.net.mx:
>
time2-@frontiernet.net wrote:
>
>
> >> CHIP:
> >>
> >> I can blame them. Muslims brought the
crusades on
>> >> themselves by attempted to overthrow
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every
| | | | | | | | country
>> >> between Asia Minor and Spain. They
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started
| | | | it.
>> >>
> > IAN
> > Then you shoild not blame the Arabs
(Canaanites), now Palestinians for
>> > wanting to kill off the Jews who
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(according
| | | | to
| | | | the Old Testament) went
>> > in and killed off the Arabs. They
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started
| | | | it!
| | | | >> > Ian Dorion
>
> DB
> I was curious where it was stated that
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theJews
| | | | "killed off the Arabs"
>> in the OT.
>
> Thanks,
IAN
You're joking or you're trying to waste my
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time.
| | | | I can't believe you
>are that stupid.
Ian Dorion
DB
Interesting bedside matter. I think that
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you
| | | | should
| | | | be careful with
your derogatory comments when what you write
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is
| | | | | | | | clearly wrong. First,
although you can find support for your
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claim, it
| | | | is
| | | | argumentative that
the Arabs of today are the Canaanites of old
(assuming that this is
what you claim); I suspect that many of your
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sources
| | | | would also argue
that Israelites are of Canaanite descent
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too.
| | | | | | | | Second, however, you
used the OT as reference which clearly
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demarcates
| | | | Arabs and Canaates;
therefore, per your reference your comments
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are
| | | | | | | | simply wrong. You
would have a better argument, although still
argumentative, if you
claimed that some Lebanese are of Canaanite
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descend.
| | | | In either case,
you would have a hard time defending your
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arguments.
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I suspect that you are attempting to twist
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the
| | | | data
| | | | so that your pet
theories can be justified.
There is certainly tension reflecting in you
referenced, the OT,
between Israelites and what it calls Arabs.
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History
| | | | might even argue
that Arabs were the initial aggressor into
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what
| | | | was
| | | | historically
Jewish land.
Tensions in the Middle East are undoubtedly
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more
| | | | | | | | related to Arab
Palestinian aggression than Israel's.
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Clearly,
| | | | | | | | Israel is only trying
to survive amidst a majority that wishes to
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destroy
| | | | it. If the
majority of Palestinians could have their
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way
| | | | and
| | | | could murder every
Jew in the Middle East, there would still be
problems in what would
then called Palestine. The Palestinians
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would
| | | | start
| | | | to fight among
themselves (as we have recently seen).
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Incursions
| | | | from Syria or other
Arab countries would make the situation
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worse.
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The Arab world has plenty of land to
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resettle
| | | | the
| | | | Palestinians. The
problem is that they do not want to resettle
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them.
| | | | The kings of Jordan
was presented with great problems when they
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tried to
| | | | help the
Palestinians following the formation of
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Israel.
| | | | As
| | | | such, the other
Arab countries do not really wish to help
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the
| | | | | | | | Palestinians (for fear
of them), although they are happy to use
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them to
| | | | get
| | | | at Israel.
I am not a Jew but would agree with Golda
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Meir's
| | | | | | | | statement: "Peace
will come when the Arabs will love their
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children
| | | | more than they hate
us." The problem in the Middle East is Arab
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hate.
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CHIP:
I put it like this one time: if the Jews laid
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down
| | | | | | their arms today, the Arabs around them would
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destroy
| | them. If the Arabs laid down their arms
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today,
| | | | there
| | would be peace. That tells you a lot about
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the
| | | | | | situation. Evidence of this fact is that
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every
| | | | time
| | Israel makes a peaceful overture, they get
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bombed
| | | | some more.
IAN
Let's see if I understand what you are saying.
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If a
| | | | gang of cut throats
from Europe come over and kick you and all your
neighbors out of your
homes and busnesses you should do nothing about
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it.
| | | | As long as the cut
throats do not go after you, you should leave
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them
| | | | alone. Is this what
you are telling me?
Also, you still have not shown me where the
Arabs/Muslims have attacked
Americans or US interests prior to the partition
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of
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CHIP:
Well, that's not what happened, for one. The Jews
bought the land the lived on when they came to
"Palestine." The Muslims didn't seem to care
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until
| | the numbers grew, and then the tensions grew.
I already responded to your last request. Muslims
weren't organized enough, nor did they have the
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means
| | prior to the last century, to attack the U.S. or
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its
| | interests. The only other comment I made on this
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was
| | that you should avoid an oversimplified post hoc
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argument.
IAN
The Jews did buy some land and that is all well and
good. Then the UN
partitioned Israel against the will of the
Palestinians. The
Palestinian leaders told their people the Jews were
going to slaughter
them in the hopes of raising an army or rebellion
and the Palestinians
were stupid enough to believe them and fled. Then
the Israeli's would
not let them return and passed laws making these
properties Israeli
lands.
Why are you supporting America's wars for Israel?
Ian Dorion
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CHIP:
Let's stay on topic, Ian. This is about the motive
for Muslim aggression toward everyone on the planet,
except for other Muslims, often only of the same sect.
Other countries have problems with Muslim extremists
that had nothing to do with supporting Israel. Not to
mention that many Muslim countries couldn't really
care less about Palestinians. At least you admit that
the Palestinian leaders attempted to instigate
fighting.
As to your last comment, I don't support America's
wars for Israel. I don't support a lot of things that
America does in the world. The only thing I've said
is that Israel is not the reason for Muslim
aggression. Muslims are commanded in their holy book
to take over the world and make everyone submit to
Islamic rule. It's certainly not all because of
Israel's existence. As I have pointed out, Muslim
aggression against everyone else in the world started
with Muhammad.
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IAN
Well let's stay on topic Chip! I started this thread and it started as
the modern history of Zionism. I got as far as 1885 to perhaps 1900 and
why Jews were discriminated against. If you and others don't agree that
the Jews were discriminated against because they were money lenders and
merchants and because they dressed funny and hung together, I have no
problem with that. I looked into this after a friend asked me 'Where is
Palestine'.
I'll be away for a few days so I'll continue when I return next week.
Ian Dorion
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