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RE: [errancy] McDonald-Till Debate
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Chip Kempston
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Aug 15, 2007 07:15 PDT
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--- elya-@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
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Chip Kempston wrote:
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--- elya-@prodigy.net.mx wrote:
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time2-@frontiernet.net wrote:
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| | IAN
The Jews did buy some land and that is all
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well
| | | | and good. Then the UN
| | | | partitioned Israel against the will of the
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Palestinians. The
| | | | Palestinian leaders told their people the
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Jews
| | | | were going to slaughter
| | | | them in the hopes of raising an army or
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rebellion and the Palestinians
| | | | were stupid enough to believe them and fled.
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| | | | Then the Israeli's would
| | | | not let them return and passed laws making
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these
| | | | properties Israeli
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DB
So if the Palestinian leaders lied to the
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people,
| | | | who was at fault in
| | this? Israel or the Palestinian leaders. Do
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we
| | | | really think that the
| | Palestinian leaders would do differently
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today?
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As for the land, I believe that there was a
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bit of
| | | | a war and some
| | lengthy times or lapse from the land involved.
I will leave this to thread to you and Chip.
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Frankly I could not
| | resist when I saw some of your statements.
Thanks,
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IAN
I don't suppose any of you, Chip and most
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epecially
| | | | DB as well as others
have ever given any consideration to the
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possibility
| | | | that you may have
been brainwashed at some point in your life by
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your
| | | | parents, teachers,
preachers, the press, president, and other
politicians, or the Madison
Avenue clique? Well, I have been.
I was brainwashed during the Vietnam War and it
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took
| | | | until sometime
after Nixon got elected for me to realize that
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the
| | | | peaceniks and flower
children were right.
Of course the churches and various cults also
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tried
| | | | brainwashing me and
I guess they did for a while with their
reincarnation bullshit. I
didn't wake up until I sat down and read the
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Bible
| | | | for myself.
But Israel! They have been brainwashing
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Americans
| | | | about Israel for over
60 years, about poor fucking Israel. Let
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anybody
| | | | say a bad word about
Israel and he'll get shut up in a hurry (Think
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back
| | | | to John Dean who
merely said something to the affect that we
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should
| | | | treat the
Palestinians equally - and he is married to a
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Jewish
| | | | lady. That ended
his chances for president.)
They say the Nazis killed 6,000,000 Jews. That
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is
| | | | true! But that is
not true! It all depends on how you count a
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Jew.
| | | | John Kerry is of
Jewish parents. Their last name was Kohl. When
they immigrated to this
country they changed their name to Kerry and
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their
| | | | religion to Roman
Catholic so the Jewish lobbies do not count him
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as a
| | | | Jewish Senator BUT
if he died in one of the concentration camps,
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they
| | | | would damn sure count
him as a Jew.
You say the Palestinians deserve to lose their
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homes
| | | | because they
believed their leaders when told the Jews were
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going
| | | | to slaughter them.
What the hell would you have done if during the
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cold
| | | | war you were told
the Russians were going to A-Bomb the area you
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were
| | | | living in and the
Russians said they weren't?
So I was brainwashed just like the rest of you
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about
| | | | Israel until
shortly after 9-11 (about Nov 01) when my
friend,Juan, interupterd a
conversation he was having with Antonio (in
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Spanish)
| | | | and asked me, "Ian,
where is Palestine?" I started to answer,
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thought
| | | | better of it, and
told him I would check and let him know in the
morning. I had no
Internet at that time because I did not have a
telephone (this is
Mexico) so I checked in my 'Information Please
Almanac 1995' and lo and
behold, no Palestine. This led me to study the
histories of Israel and
the surrounding countries and in April 2002 I
finally got a telephone
and Internet service which opened mabny doors
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for
| | | | me.
All of you seem to think the Arabs and Muslims
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are
| | | | all Evil. That's a
word that really bothers me. RR and his Evil
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Empire
| | | | followed by GWB and
his Axis of Evil. That's the way to get the
Christians and apparently
even the atheists riled up. If you really look
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at
| | | | the situation, it is
the US, Israel and the UK which make up the real
Axixs of Evil.
Iraq had no WMD, they had nothing to do with
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9-11,
| | | | no ties to al Qaida,
they were no threat to the US or for that matter
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to
| | | | Israel. They did
however pay the families of (Freedom Fighting)
suicide bombers $25,000
for the homes the Israelis bulldozed with
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American
| | | | Catterpillars.
Something not even the Nazis did to the French
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or
| | | | Polish Freedom
Fighters.
You DB say you would give your life to combat
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evil
| | | | and from the way you
talk, you consider the Arabs/Muslims Evil. What
branch of the service
are you in? Why don't you join the Marines and
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put
| | | | your fat ass on the
line? Too old? Volunteer for other duty in
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Iraq.
| | | | Get your kids to
enlist! Find out where some of these evil
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people
| | | | are, strap a bomb
around your chest like they do and blow your ass
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up.
| | | | I'm willing to bet
I have more military time than all of you put
together so tell me how
fucking brave you are.
How many of you have read Jimmy Carter's
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'Palestine:
| | | | Peace not
Apartheid'? or perhaps Ali Abunimah's 'One
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Country'?
| | | | or even Andrew
Hurley's 'One Nation Under Israel'? I had a
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copy of
| | | | the last one sent
to Till a couple years ago but never heard a
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word
| | | | back from him.
That's more than I've written in a long time but
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I
| | | | had all weekend to
think about it.
Ian Dorion
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CHIP:
I'd just like to say, Ian, thank you for your
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personal
| | testimony; touching, but that's what the above
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pretty
| | much adds up to.
I don't care how long you were in the military, as
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if
| | it has any relevance, or adds one iota of
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legitimacy
| | to your position. I was in the Navy for four
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years
| | myself (as if it matters). I also don't care how
brainwashed you think you were. By the way, how
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do
| | you know you're not just brainwashed into the
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opposite
| | extreme now?
And you have the nerve to put up a book by Jimmy
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"I
| | was a useless President, and now I'm a poisonous
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snake
| | handling moron" Carter as support for your
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position?
| | What a joke. I'll try to find some reviews on
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these
| | other books and check them out if I can find them.
However, if you want to convince anyone here,
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you're
| | going to have to do better than throwing out some
books (by at least one, and likely three,
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obviously
| | biased individuals). You started laying the
groundwork for your argument, and then apparently
forgot where you were going.
I have to drop off the list for a while to attend
school, but I'll hang around for a few more days
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to
| | see if you provide anything of substance.
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IAN
You are right when you say my military doesn’t have
any relevance –
especially when I spent the Korean War on the
beaches of Puerto Rico. I
threw that in there because DB said he would give
his life to combat
evil but hasn’t put his ass on the line yet that I
know of. I don’t
think I am brainwashed in my thinking now because I
don’t believe
reading a short history of Israel and the
surrounding countries in my
1995 Information Please World Almanac could
brainwash me from your way
of thinking to my way of thinking.
I will agree that Jimmy Carter was probably one of
the worst presidents
we ever had and he was about the worst because he
was too honest or
maybe a better word would be naïve. You say YOU
aren’t brainwashed but
all you do is listen to the prosecution. How about
listening to the
defense for a change? (Well you already know they
are going to say they
are not guilty.) Don’t rely on what someone else
says about a book.
Read it yourself!
So you read, listen to, and watch the American news
every day of your
life as I have/do for the last 60 years and you
don’t think it’s biased.
Do yourself a favor and read the books. Show me
one place where Jimmy
Carter has lied or even bent the truth. Yes, I
started laying the
groundwork but you and DB jumped ahead and frankly I
don’t see any point
in continuing because it is like arguing the Bible
with McDonald. I
don’t have the time or the patience for it.
While you are at school, stop by the library and get
Jimmy Carter’s
book. I don’t agree with his solution to the
problem because he is
still thinking like a Christian and thinks everyone
else thinks the same
way. Ali Abunimah has a better solution on his ‘One
Country.’
Ian Dorion
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CHIP:
Nope, don't watch the news at all unless it's the
Daily Show with Jon Stewart, so not much chance of
brainwashing for me; don't hardly watch any TV. I
don't even watch the weather because it's wrong most
of the time.
I'll be sure to check out those books as soon as I get
a chance.
Sorry we got off track, but you were jumping around
quite a bit yourself.
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